OT Mushroom cloud in N. Korea

John Savard wrote:
The mushroom cloud occurred near their Daepodong missile base, and the
mushroom cloud was four miles in diameter (or more) and it occurred on
September 9th, the 56th anniversary of the founding of North Korea's
communist regime.

And they're saying they don't think it was an above-ground test of a
nuclear weapon?

Yes. We have numerous systems designed to test for such.
Including gamma radiation sensors (whence came the original
detection of cosmological gamma ray bursts), radionuclide
measuring systems (designed to monitor for the presence of
certain components of radioactive fallout in the atmosphere),
infrared sensors (for both missile launch and blast
detection), seismic sensors, and others. A below ground
carefully controlled low-yield test might, potentially,
evade these sensors if done right. An atmospheric test
would almost certainly not.


Well, I did hear it claimed that there was more energy in the fuel tanks
of a Saturn V rocket than in an atomic bomb. Perhaps North Korea's
attempt to put its first man into space failed?

Unlikely considering North Korea's capabilities, but not
completely out of the question.

For what it's worth, a Saturn V rocket contains much less
energy than a typical nuclear weapon, though it does
contain on the order of kilotons (TNT equiv.) of energy.
It does, after all, contain a few kilotons of high energy
chemical propellants. A Taep'o-dong 2, however, does not,
it contains merely tens of tonnes of propellant.

In alt.gossip.celebrities John Savard wrote:

The mushroom cloud occurred near their Daepodong missile base, and the
mushroom cloud was four miles in diameter (or more) and it occurred on
September 9th, the 56th anniversary of the founding of North Korea's
communist regime.

And they're saying they don't think it was an above-ground test of a
nuclear weapon?

Mushroom cloud != Nuclear explosion.

I'm sure we'll know for sure as more information becomes available in the
coming week.


--
.................................................. ............................

"Arabs tend to confess; it's part of their nature"

- Moshe Etzioni, an Israeli high court justice,
on Israel's use of Torture in interrogation

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com

Well, remember when the USAF demonstrated them"MOAB" conventional bomb to the
press as a demo to Sadam? That also made a mushroom cloud. Any suitably large
and hot explosion is going to do the same, could have been a refinery, chemical
plant, etc. The key will be to see if there was radiation, and to that issue,
no one has yet given a definitive yes or no.

It could also have been an asteroid strike, but That's pretty long odds.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:04:51 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On 12 Sep 2004 05:21:23 GMT, (the bionic glove
chick) wrote, in part:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...12/ap_on_re_as
/nkorea_explosion

http://tinyurl.com/3r6xg

The mushroom cloud occurred near their Daepodong missile base, and the
mushroom cloud was four miles in diameter (or more) and it occurred on
September 9th, the 56th anniversary of the founding of North Korea's
communist regime.

And they're saying they don't think it was an above-ground test of a
nuclear weapon?

Well, I did hear it claimed that there was more energy in the fuel tanks
of a Saturn V rocket than in an atomic bomb. Perhaps North Korea's
attempt to put its first man into space failed?
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html


I haven't seen comparisons of a Saturn V, but there are many items
around the world that have more energy than an atomic bomb. The ships
that carry liquified natural gas, for example. If terrorists don't
want the cachet of nuclear weapons, setting off an explosion of one of
those ships in the harbor of a large city would be an attractive
alternative. For the explosion in North Korea, rather than a missile
there might simply have been fuel storage tanks in that location.

In article ,
Harold Groot wrote:

I haven't seen comparisons of a Saturn V, but there are many items
around the world that have more energy than an atomic bomb. The ships
that carry liquified natural gas, for example. If terrorists don't
want the cachet of nuclear weapons, setting off an explosion of one of
those ships in the harbor of a large city would be an attractive
alternative.

By any chance, do you own a copy of _The Health Hazards
of Not Going Nuclear_?

I wondered about LNG explosions when Beckman's book came up
a while back, and did a little digging, because it seemed to me that
given that people do stupid things all the time, if it were possible
to cause an H-Bomb scale LNG explosion, someone would have done it.
It turned out the range of concentration of LNG to O2 that gives you
an explosion is rather narrow so it's unlikely you'd get a nicely mixed
cloud in just the right range before something set it off. Uusually
the mix will be wrong, too O2 rich or too LNG-rich.

--
"I mean, you don't seem like a bad guy to me..."
"I don't? I got a death touch, an army of killer robots and a skull
drawn on my chest and I don't look like a bad guy to you? I think
you could be in the wrong business."

MSu1049321 wrote:

It could also have been an asteroid strike, but That's pretty long odds.

LOL. North Korea has all the luck, an asteroid falls right on their
underground missile manufacturing complex.


--
"The rabbits became strange in many ways, different from other rabbits.
They knew well enough what was happening. But even to themselves they
pretended that all was well, for the food was good, they were protected,
they had nothing to fear but the one fear; and that struck here and
there, never enough at a time to drive them away. They forgot the ways
of wild rabbits. They forgot El-ahrairah, for what use had they for
tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?"
-+ Richard Adams, "Watership Down"

On 12 Sep 2004 17:26:07 -0400, (James Nicoll)
wrote:

In article ,
Harold Groot wrote:

I haven't seen comparisons of a Saturn V, but there are many items
around the world that have more energy than an atomic bomb. The ships
that carry liquified natural gas, for example. If terrorists don't
want the cachet of nuclear weapons, setting off an explosion of one of
those ships in the harbor of a large city would be an attractive
alternative.

By any chance, do you own a copy of _The Health Hazards
of Not Going Nuclear_?

No. There have been articles detailing the energy potential of these
things for a couple of decades now. It's nothing new.


I wondered about LNG explosions when Beckman's book came up
a while back, and did a little digging, because it seemed to me that
given that people do stupid things all the time, if it were possible
to cause an H-Bomb scale LNG explosion, someone would have done it.
It turned out the range of concentration of LNG to O2 that gives you
an explosion is rather narrow so it's unlikely you'd get a nicely mixed
cloud in just the right range before something set it off. Uusually
the mix will be wrong, too O2 rich or too LNG-rich.


Hey, I didn't say it would be EASY, merely that there was a
sufficiently large concentration of energy available.

Of course, even if it just all went up in a fire instead of explosion
it would be quite a disaster. I'm thinking of a certain port city
down in Texas almost 60 years ago.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:04:51 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

I haven't seen comparisons of a Saturn V, but there are many items
around the world that have more energy than an atomic bomb. The ships
that carry liquified natural gas, for example.

Pound for pound....not even a close second.

"studio" burbled to the world:

I haven't seen comparisons of a Saturn V, but there are many items
around the world that have more energy than an atomic bomb. The
ships
that carry liquified natural gas, for example.

Pound for pound....not even a close second.


Nobody said anything about pound for pound. Just that a
100000 ton LNG tanker could have more energy than an atomic bomb.

Try reading for comprehension, it's fun and entertaining.

Chris