JimO: "Chinese space advances benefit everyone"

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:02:43 -0400, in a place far, far away, Dimitri
Vertikov made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

The americans wanted to invade Iraq ? They refused to shift control to a
neutral party (UN) ?

The UN is hardly a neutral party.

rest of historical revisionism and off-topic insanity snipped

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Dimitri Vertikov wrote:

Scott Lowther wrote:
France is a demoracy, yet is France one of 'America's friends'?

They gave America the Statue of Liberty!

And America gave the French liberation from the Nazis. Which is more
important?

Americans tend to conveniently forget that only 2 countries gave the USA
concrete intelligence with regards to 9-11 itself. France and Syria.

But once the USA ran out of "9-11" stories and felt it needed another
evil-doer...

Blah, blah, blah. Adjust your tinfoil hat, skippy.


--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
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In article , Rand Simberg wrote:
On 18 Oct 2003 07:23:08 -0700, in a place far, far away,
(B. Isaksen) made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:


Like Bush said: "Eigther you are with us, or against us".

Bush didn't say that.

When you correct the typo, and reparse it slightly (from "Either you
are" to "You're either", which doesn't AIUI impart any change to the
meaning), he did. Or, at least, he was certainly reported as doing.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0011106-4.html

[press conference w. Chirac that morning]

: Q****Mr. President, you said this morning that you wanted more than
: sympathy or words from other countries.**What nations were you
: specifically talking about, and what do you want from them?
:
: PRESIDENT BUSH: (...) But over time, it's going to be important for
: nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity.*You are
: either with us or you are against us in the fight against terror.*And
: that's going to be part of my speech [on November 10th -ag] at the
: United Nations.

He may not have said "The war is over", but he certainly said this one.

--
-Andrew Gray

(Christopher) wrote in
:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:46:46 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:07:16 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote, in part:

One away day in space
and China is now public enemy one in the American administration mind
set, it seems were back to the same mind set as it was on 1 October
1958.

I wasn't aware that George Bush was voicing any sentiments similar to
mine. I would rather have expected him to be extending warm
congratulations to China. Which are also appropriate on such an
occasion; this is an achievement. I am only not entirely happy about
it because I saw China as a problem before it happened.

That may be so but the first reaction form the American administration
shows nothing much has changed since 1958.

Really?

What *was* the first reaction to Shenzhou 5 from the American
administration?

--
JRF

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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:20:11 -0400, (Tao Tong)
wrote:

In article ,
(John Savard) wrote:

If China were weak and helpless, Tibet would have been liberated long
ago. Therefore, for China not to be weak and helpless is bad, because
China's not being weak and helpless is contributing to innocent people
getting hurt.

Where is the flaw in that logic?

How about the Basques? Spain being should hurts them.

Are you comparing the situation of Tibet with that of the
Basque Country? Uh, oh, your ignorance is showing here.

Greetings.
--
Jose M. Arnesto

On 19 Oct 2003 04:36:52 GMT, "Jorge R. Frank"
wrote:

(Christopher) wrote in
:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:46:46 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:07:16 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote, in part:

One away day in space
and China is now public enemy one in the American administration mind
set, it seems were back to the same mind set as it was on 1 October
1958.

I wasn't aware that George Bush was voicing any sentiments similar to
mine. I would rather have expected him to be extending warm
congratulations to China. Which are also appropriate on such an
occasion; this is an achievement. I am only not entirely happy about
it because I saw China as a problem before it happened.

That may be so but the first reaction form the American administration
shows nothing much has changed since 1958.

Really?

What *was* the first reaction to Shenzhou 5 from the American
administration?

Well on the BBC news, a talking head in the administration popped up
and said bla bla bla then 'it's a threat to National Security'.


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

(Christopher) wrote in
:

On 19 Oct 2003 04:36:52 GMT, "Jorge R. Frank"
wrote:

(Christopher) wrote in
:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:46:46 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:07:16 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote, in part:

One away day in space
and China is now public enemy one in the American administration mind
set, it seems were back to the same mind set as it was on 1 October
1958.

I wasn't aware that George Bush was voicing any sentiments similar to
mine. I would rather have expected him to be extending warm
congratulations to China. Which are also appropriate on such an
occasion; this is an achievement. I am only not entirely happy about
it because I saw China as a problem before it happened.

That may be so but the first reaction form the American administration
shows nothing much has changed since 1958.

Really?

What *was* the first reaction to Shenzhou 5 from the American
administration?

Well on the BBC news, a talking head in the administration popped up
and said bla bla bla then 'it's a threat to National Security'.

Wrong. This was the first reaction from the administration:

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2003...333_china.html

"This launch is an important achievement in the history of human
exploration. China, after Russia and the United States, is only the third
nation to successfully launch humans into space.

"The Chinese people have a long and distinguished history of exploration.
NASA wishes China a continued safe human space flight program."

(and if you wish to contend that Sean O'Keefe is not a member of the
administration, think again.)

This was the first public statement by Bush himself, and directly
contradicts whatever official you quoted above:

http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/03101....hjzi9nyf.html

"No, it's an interesting development," he told Channel News Asia in an
exchange taped earlier this week in Washington. "I don't necessarily see it
as a threat."

--
JRF

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lid (John Savard) wrote in
:

China is not a democracy.

It doesn't have a free press or free elections.

FYI, China has never been a democray.

Family relationships in China are not democratic. Relationships between
people in China are not democratic. The Chinese view relationships as
dominate and subordinate.

In short, the Chinese mentality is not very democractic.

A country does not necessarily need to be democratic to be successful.
--
Lucas Tam )
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lid (John Savard) wrote in
:

What most saddens me about this is that it will delude many young
Chinese further into primitive nationalism and uncritical support of
their regime. That will delay the day when China wakes up and realizes
it has taken a wrong turn.

Primitive Nationalism?

Canada and the United States often resort to "primitive nationalism" to
support their causes as well.

Look at Bush and Post 9/11...

Even in Canada, nationalism is pushed from time to time, except we're too
passive to care.

--
Lucas Tam )
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lid (John Savard) wrote in
:

That China doesn't share America's democratic values is borne out by
the fate of Tibet. (That is, the democratic values of the America of
today and at least as far back as Woodrow Wilson, before anyone makes
wisecracks about the fate of Native Americans...)

If Quebec had won the referendum years ago... do you think Ottawa would
have let them become independent?

Somehow I doubt it.
--
Lucas Tam )
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