OT - WARNING - Yahoo Groups

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:51:41 GMT, WayneH wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:08:03 GMT, Richard DeLuca
wrote:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
Yahoo is now using something called, "Web Beacons" to track
Yahoo Group users around the Net and see what you're doing
and where you are going - similar to cookies.
[snip]

A follow-up to this - You must have cookies enabled for the opt-out
function to work. Also, unless you want to re-do the opt-out
procedure each time you go online, you must not delete the Yahoo
cookie. Yahoo has become a bit of a PITA.

If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.


--
- Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

Time was you couldn't use the groups at all without
cookies enabled.



"Mike Ruskai" wrote in message
.earthlink.net...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:51:41 GMT, WayneH wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:08:03 GMT, Richard DeLuca
wrote:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
Yahoo is now using something called, "Web Beacons" to track
Yahoo Group users around the Net and see what you're doing
and where you are going - similar to cookies.
[snip]

A follow-up to this - You must have cookies enabled for the opt-out
function to work. Also, unless you want to re-do the opt-out
procedure each time you go online, you must not delete the Yahoo
cookie. Yahoo has become a bit of a PITA.

If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.


--
- Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

Time was you couldn't use the groups at all without
cookies enabled.



"Mike Ruskai" wrote in message
.earthlink.net...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:51:41 GMT, WayneH wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:08:03 GMT, Richard DeLuca
wrote:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
Yahoo is now using something called, "Web Beacons" to track
Yahoo Group users around the Net and see what you're doing
and where you are going - similar to cookies.
[snip]

A follow-up to this - You must have cookies enabled for the opt-out
function to work. Also, unless you want to re-do the opt-out
procedure each time you go online, you must not delete the Yahoo
cookie. Yahoo has become a bit of a PITA.

If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.


--
- Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

Martin,

Plain text emails are clearly the best option, but some of us subscribe to
many Yahoo forums. It may not be practical to enable individual emails for
every single group.


Anders H.





"MartyP" wrote in
m:

Well I have to ask why do you go there to read the groups? Don't you
have them send you the plain text format to your email address?

Martin Poles



--
correct address anhn at telia dot com

Martin,

Plain text emails are clearly the best option, but some of us subscribe to
many Yahoo forums. It may not be practical to enable individual emails for
every single group.


Anders H.





"MartyP" wrote in
m:

Well I have to ask why do you go there to read the groups? Don't you
have them send you the plain text format to your email address?

Martin Poles



--
correct address anhn at telia dot com

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:25:19 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
wrote:


If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.

Not *entirely* accurate, Mike. See:

http://www.allaboutcookies.org/web-beacons/

for more details, but the web bug can still gather some minimal data
without cookies being enabled. In any case, I don't think its
possible to use Yahoo groups, mail, or other stuff without logging in,
which also requires cookies.

Regards...

Wayne Hoffman
33° 49" 17' N 117° 56" 41' W
"Don't Look Down"

http://home.pacbell.net/w6wlr/

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:25:19 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
wrote:


If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.

Not *entirely* accurate, Mike. See:

http://www.allaboutcookies.org/web-beacons/

for more details, but the web bug can still gather some minimal data
without cookies being enabled. In any case, I don't think its
possible to use Yahoo groups, mail, or other stuff without logging in,
which also requires cookies.

Regards...

Wayne Hoffman
33° 49" 17' N 117° 56" 41' W
"Don't Look Down"

http://home.pacbell.net/w6wlr/

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:35:43 GMT, WayneH wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:25:19 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
wrote:


If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.

Not *entirely* accurate, Mike. See:

http://www.allaboutcookies.org/web-beacons/

for more details, but the web bug can still gather some minimal data
without cookies being enabled. In any case, I don't think its
possible to use Yahoo groups, mail, or other stuff without logging in,
which also requires cookies.

No, what I said is entirely accurate. Without cookies enabled, no user
information can be retrieved by the web beacon, in cookies stored by that
domain previously. As such, it would be impossible for the server at the
other end to determine whether or not the person fetching the image has
opted out of being tracked - the IP address can be stored, but that is
true of any connection with any protocol.

Opting out means that the server still requests your user ID cookie, and
if it's in the opt-out list, does no further processing. So in effect,
when you opt-out of such tracking, you are not actually preventing your
activity from being tracked. You are merely indicating that when you are
tracked, no information is to be saved.

Without cookies enabled, tracking is impossible, and therefore opting out
is also impossible.


--
- Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:35:43 GMT, WayneH wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:25:19 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
wrote:


If you don't have cookies enabled, the "beacon" won't work anyway, so
there's nothing to opt-out of.

Not *entirely* accurate, Mike. See:

http://www.allaboutcookies.org/web-beacons/

for more details, but the web bug can still gather some minimal data
without cookies being enabled. In any case, I don't think its
possible to use Yahoo groups, mail, or other stuff without logging in,
which also requires cookies.

No, what I said is entirely accurate. Without cookies enabled, no user
information can be retrieved by the web beacon, in cookies stored by that
domain previously. As such, it would be impossible for the server at the
other end to determine whether or not the person fetching the image has
opted out of being tracked - the IP address can be stored, but that is
true of any connection with any protocol.

Opting out means that the server still requests your user ID cookie, and
if it's in the opt-out list, does no further processing. So in effect,
when you opt-out of such tracking, you are not actually preventing your
activity from being tracked. You are merely indicating that when you are
tracked, no information is to be saved.

Without cookies enabled, tracking is impossible, and therefore opting out
is also impossible.


--
- Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:08:12 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
wrote:

snip

the IP address can be stored, but that is true of any connection with any protocol.

Which is exactly the "minimal data" to which I was referring. An IP
*can* be used to identify a user if necessary.

All this is moot anyway - as I (and others) have noted previously, in
order to play on Yahoo's court ya gotta have cookies enabled. My
original point was that those who choose to delete cookies in between
online sessions must re-do the opt-out procedure every time they
return to the 'Net.

Wayne Hoffman
33° 49" 17' N 117° 56" 41' W
"Don't Look Down"

http://home.pacbell.net/w6wlr/