Observing Mars observers

A few impressions I've picked up having been at or heard about various
public viewings...

After queuing for half an hour:
- "That was so not worth it!"

Having seen Mars through a 30 inch:
- "I feel all tingly"

On a bad seeing night:
- "It's jumping around a lot"

Through a dob without tracking:
- "Gee it's moving fast"

Through an unknown 70mm refractor:
- "It's just a blob! It's worse than just looking straight at it!"

After a private viewing:
- "Well, I've done my duty" [re once in 60,000yr opportunity]

That's more like it:
- "Wow, I'm actually looking at another planet"

People having been turning up in droves at local observatories to view Mars.
As much as I've enjoyed viewing Mars regularly myself, I can see why the
casual observer might be underwhelmed, and a bit disillusioned with amateur
astronomy. In retrospect, circumstances permitting, I think people should
also be treated to a side-serving a nice globular, open cluster, double,
filtered nebula, and optional galaxy or moon view.

Part of the problem is that there's quite a knack to planetary observation
(I'm told :-) -- eking out detail, pausing for those snapshots of seeing.
Bright clusters and the moon, for example, are much more obvious to the
untrained eye.

Your mileage may well vary -- I'd be interested to hear.

Mark

In article ,
"Mark & Roslyn Elkington" wrote:

A few impressions I've picked up having been at or heard about various
public viewings...

[snipped underwhelmed comments]

Sounds like last Saturday night at Fremont Peak.

That's more like it:
- "Wow, I'm actually looking at another planet"

Those are the ones who are more likely to come back.

People having been turning up in droves at local observatories to view Mars.
As much as I've enjoyed viewing Mars regularly myself, I can see why the
casual observer might be underwhelmed, and a bit disillusioned with amateur
astronomy. In retrospect, circumstances permitting, I think people should
also be treated to a side-serving a nice globular, open cluster, double,
filtered nebula, and optional galaxy or moon view.

Near the Fremont Peak observatory (30" amateur reflector), several
other scopes were set up, ranging from 18" dobs and 7" Astro Physics
refractors to 5" Maks and 3" refractors...and clusters of visitors
drifting through looking at Mars and various DSOs. There were something
like 400 people holding numbered tickets for a chance to look through
the 30".

Meanwhile, up at the upper parking lot, a few others had set
up, from a 15" Obsession and a couple of 8-11" SCTs, to binoculars
and a dusty Astroscan. (It's all I have right now.) A lot of visitors
wandering through the lot, looking at the moon, mars, various clusters,
nebulae, galaxies, and whatnot.

Part of the problem is that there's quite a knack to planetary observation
(I'm told :-) -- eking out detail, pausing for those snapshots of seeing.
Bright clusters and the moon, for example, are much more obvious to the
untrained eye.

Your mileage may well vary -- I'd be interested to hear.

A couple of people stopped late in the evening (well, late for
the small kids in tow) to comment on how *nice* everyone was...this
looked like something that would be fun to do. Globular clusters
and some planetary nebulae seemed to elicit the strongest responses
all night.

I did a public star party just last night (Sep 3) and another one last Friday
(Aug 29). Most people seemed to be reasonably patient with Mars, but it
required constant explanation as to what to look for. Most of the scope
operators in my area had yielded Mars to me, since my scope (8-inch f/6 Cave
Newt) had the best optics for planetary detail. What was funniest (or saddest)
was when a couple of people asked if they could adjust the focus. Fine with me,
I said, since it was focused for my eye, and the best detail would be visible
only with precise focus. The next viewer after one of these refoucusings asked
if the black spots were on the planet. Black spots? Nobody else said the
surface detail was that easy, so I took a look. Well, the previous viewer had
racked it so far *out* of focus that the "black spots" were dust spots on the
eyepiece.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27'59"N, 117° 05' 53"W

lol, reminds me of when I showed Mars to a freind and she refocussed. "Oooh,
it looks like a doughnut"!



"Curtis Croulet" wrote in message
...
I did a public star party just last night (Sep 3) and another one last
Friday
(Aug 29). Most people seemed to be reasonably patient with Mars, but it
required constant explanation as to what to look for. Most of the scope
operators in my area had yielded Mars to me, since my scope (8-inch f/6
Cave
Newt) had the best optics for planetary detail. What was funniest (or
saddest)
was when a couple of people asked if they could adjust the focus. Fine
with me,
I said, since it was focused for my eye, and the best detail would be
visible
only with precise focus. The next viewer after one of these refoucusings
asked
if the black spots were on the planet. Black spots? Nobody else said the
surface detail was that easy, so I took a look. Well, the previous viewer
had
racked it so far *out* of focus that the "black spots" were dust spots on
the
eyepiece.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27'59"N, 117° 05' 53"W

Hi there. You posted:

A few impressions I've picked up having been at or heard about various
public viewings...

After queuing for half an hour:
- "That was so not worth it!"

We had "officially" 1,100 people come through Hyde Observatory the
night/morning of the closest approach (might have been more), and look not
only with its 3 telescopes, but through 6 others our club had set up on the
lawn outside. Not once in the nearly 6 hours we were open did we hear anyone
say "that was so not worth it". In fact, the words "that is SO cool" seemed
to dominate, along with repeated "than you's" from those who finished their
looks. The interest in Mars is still high, because last Saturday night when
it was cloudy and drizzling, we still had 200 people show up just to see the
Mars program we run in the lecture room.

Through a dob without tracking:
- "Gee it's moving fast"

Now I did hear a few comments like that, only I was using an un-driven GEM
Newtonian. In fact, the movement seemed to impress the kids the most, since
the other views tended to be through clock-driven telescopes, ie: "Wow, look
at that thing MOVE!"

Through an unknown 70mm refractor:
- "It's just a blob! It's worse than just looking straight at it!"

The smallest scope we had set up was a 4 inch refractor running at a decent
power, so we didn't have that problem. A few people from the general public
had bought some of the small department-store scopes, but they quickly
abandoned using them once they got a view through even one of the scopes our
club brought.

After a private viewing:
- "Well, I've done my duty" [re once in 60,000yr opportunity]

Nope, it was more like, "Wow, if its this heavy on a week-night, what is it
going to be like Saturday?!"

As much as I've enjoyed viewing Mars regularly myself, I can see why the
casual observer might be underwhelmed, and a bit disillusioned with amateur
astronomy.

That is not the impression I got. We had decent seeing (which helped a lot),
along with the proper selection of power and filters, but we also had a lot of
people who were enthusiastic to get a good look at the details on the planet's
surface, many for the first time. We ran our Hyde program, "2003: Year of The
Red Planet", in the lecture hall to standing-room-only crowds in the lecture
room, along with my computer slide-show outside to keep those in line
entertained while they waited. Most knew that they wouldn't see the fine
detail which spaceprobes show, but they were at the same time most
appreciative of what they could see for themselves "live" in the telescopes.

In retrospect, circumstances permitting, I think people should
also be treated to a side-serving a nice globular, open cluster, double,
filtered nebula, and optional galaxy or moon view.

We do this almost every week, but when there is a featured object, the public
seems to want to see that one, being considerably less interested in other
things. As a matter of fact, I doubt any of the scopes we had out there was
looking at anything other than Mars except early on when Mars was too low in
the sky. As for "filtered nebulae", we have not had good luck with filters,
as the public seems to need to "see the stars" to "lock" onto them. The
filters, while greatly improving the view of nebulae to those who know how to
look, seem to dim things enough for the public that we don't use them, other
than perhaps a broad-band filter like the Lumicon Deep-sky. Clear skies to
you.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

Stuart Mulligan wrote:

lol, reminds me of when I showed Mars to a freind and she refocussed. "Oooh,
it looks like a doughnut"!

Maybe she just read Verne's _Journey to the Center of the Earth_ and was
primed for a hole stright to the core?

People having been turning up in droves at local observatories to view
Mars.
As much as I've enjoyed viewing Mars regularly myself, I can see why the
casual observer might be underwhelmed, and a bit disillusioned with
amateur
astronomy. In retrospect, circumstances permitting, I think people should
also be treated to a side-serving a nice globular, open cluster, double,
filtered nebula, and optional galaxy or moon view.

I'm sure I will end up responding to this but here goes.

First - my background. I am new to owning a scope but have looked through
several of my friends scopes many times over the years. Finally scraped
together enough cash to buy a 6" refractor this spring. I have seen
Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and several DSO's over the years. Jupiter and
Saturn were excellent the first times I saw them. The DSO's (andromeda,
clusters, various nebs, etc) where excellent - although I admit to being a
"little" surprised by just how faint they were in a scope. Uranus was a
small spot in the sky but I expected as much. As it turns out - I never had
the chance (or got around to it) to view mars before. I'm not even sure
why. However - this spring (early May?) I finally got the chance with the
new scope to view Mars for the first time.

Now - I never expected anything like what I have seen from the Hubble or
from the satellites we have sent there. I knew what I would see would be
smaller and I would not see much in the way of detail. But I did expect to
see something "bigger". I think I expected to see something about 1/4 - 1/2
the apparent size of Jupiter in the eye piece. Afterall - it IS a heck of a
lot closer than Jupiter and it's not THAT small. So - when I saw something
that was not much bigger than a star I was somewhat underwhelmed.

Yes, yes I could have done my home work and done some calculations to know
what the apparent size of Mars might have been. Didn't think to. Just made
that good ole assumption. Set myself up for it.

On the other hand - come late July - early August - I have been quite
pleased with Mars and the detail that has been available to see. But I can
still agree with someone who is "underwhelmed", that Mars is not what you
might expect to see and could be disappointing. My only real point here is
that I do not think it is unreasonable to expect that someone who is NOT
that familiar with looking at the planets through a plane ole scope to be
disappointed with some of these things. The media has been feeding people
lines for months that would let them believe otherwise. Nothing in their
other experiences would probably have them think they would not be seeing
"more".

I think it may be more unreasonable to expect everyone to be awed by what
they see. Part of what I have enjoyed about all of this has been the
challenge of finding some things, the satisfaction of being patient enough
to pick out that very subtle detail from what I am looking at. Most of the
people I know that have scopes feel in a similar way I believe. Why on
earth would you expect the average person to walk up spend 30 seconds
looking through the eye piece get the same appreciation?

What I have tried to do on my side walk is to give people some idea of what
they might see before looking through the eye piece as well as tell them
some other facts about Mars. None of the people that I talked to were "too"
dismayed when they looked through as I think they already had some idea of
what they were going to see.

In short - I think you got a perfectly normal reaction

Glenn

At the Texas Tech University Observatory the normal crowd for a star party
is about 50-100. Wednesday night, August 27, after local TV and radio
announcements more than 2500 people attended. Besides the university scope
we had about ten individual scopes. When I left at 3:30 AM the line for the
16" scope was still about 50 yards long. Some people waited 6 &1/2 hours to
see Mars. Especially satisfying was the joy of the young and the old at
seeing Mars for the first time. Don





Mark & Roslyn Elkington" wrote in message
...
A few impressions I've picked up having been at or heard about various
public viewings...

After queuing for half an hour:
- "That was so not worth it!"

Having seen Mars through a 30 inch:
- "I feel all tingly"

On a bad seeing night:
- "It's jumping around a lot"

Through a dob without tracking:
- "Gee it's moving fast"

Through an unknown 70mm refractor:
- "It's just a blob! It's worse than just looking straight at it!"

After a private viewing:
- "Well, I've done my duty" [re once in 60,000yr opportunity]

That's more like it:
- "Wow, I'm actually looking at another planet"

People having been turning up in droves at local observatories to view
Mars.
As much as I've enjoyed viewing Mars regularly myself, I can see why the
casual observer might be underwhelmed, and a bit disillusioned with
amateur
astronomy. In retrospect, circumstances permitting, I think people should
also be treated to a side-serving a nice globular, open cluster, double,
filtered nebula, and optional galaxy or moon view.

Part of the problem is that there's quite a knack to planetary observation
(I'm told :-) -- eking out detail, pausing for those snapshots of seeing.
Bright clusters and the moon, for example, are much more obvious to the
untrained eye.

Your mileage may well vary -- I'd be interested to hear.

Mark

Stuart Mulligan wrote:

lol, reminds me of when I showed Mars to a freind and she refocussed. "Oooh,
it looks like a doughnut"!

Well, it reminds ME of the time my son, then maybe 4 years old,
looked through the binoculars and exclaimed,

"IT'S THE REAL MOON IN SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!"

The peculiar thing was that we lived in a townhouse behind a
supermarket, and he was looking straight into an impenetrable
bright gray late evening suburban summer haze. It was actually
a few years after that that I figured out what he was seeing.
He was too young to remember anything about it, so I just have
to settle for believing my theory, which is pretty good, I think.

I feel sure that what he was looking at was the binocular field
of view itself, which of course is large, round, and bright
( not like in the movies. ) He was in the thrall of Star Wars
at the time, and it appeared to him just like those screen-filling
shots of the Death Star or this or that planet. A cheap thrill for sure.

Lew Mammel, Jr.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:23:21 +1000, "Mark & Roslyn Elkington"
wrote:

A few impressions I've picked up having been at or heard about various
public viewings...

After queuing for half an hour:
- "That was so not worth it!"

Having seen Mars through a 30 inch:
- "I feel all tingly"

On a bad seeing night:
- "It's jumping around a lot"

Through a dob without tracking:
- "Gee it's moving fast"

Through an unknown 70mm refractor:
- "It's just a blob! It's worse than just looking straight at it!"

After a private viewing:
- "Well, I've done my duty" [re once in 60,000yr opportunity]

That's more like it:
- "Wow, I'm actually looking at another planet"

All of the above, but the ones that stick with me are the thank-yous.

And also some of the questions, specifically the ones that indicate
that the person has no concept of what a solar system is (I showed
M13, described what it was, and then was asked how it was different
from Mars, I responded with an explanation of the difference between
objects that are lightseconds versus lightyears away) or that our Sun
is a star, or that Stars are Suns, or how a planet is different from a
star, or the lady that explained to me that until I explained how Mars
and the Earth orbit the Sun she thought the TV newspeople were telling
her that this was her last chance to see Mars ever. Oof-da.

..
Paul Below
Battle Point Astronomical Association
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
http://bainbridgeisland.org/ritchieobs/