Orion's "apo"

http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?it...rID=237&KICKER

Interesting variation on normal Chinese focuser. This is probably a
good idea. I figure if Stellarvue can claim improved achromatism
for their 80mm (with the latest Dyer review in Sky and Tel
"confirming" it) there is definitely room for another scope to bridge
the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

wrote in message
news

http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?it...ath=1%2C2%2 C
4%2C13&KickerID=237&KICKER

Interesting variation on normal Chinese focuser. This is probably a
good idea. I figure if Stellarvue can claim improved achromatism
for their 80mm (with the latest Dyer review in Sky and Tel
"confirming" it) there is definitely room for another scope to bridge
the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

It will be fun to watch.

Regards SV, the problem is you never know what Stellervue is doing to reduce
the color. For a while they were stopping down the aperture (see Ed Ting's
review). Then they went to applying an MV coating to the objective and
calling it a "proprietary" and "attenuated design" rather than admitting
they were filtering it. The last SV I saw had an MV filter applied to the
objective, but the owner insisted it didn't because SV had told him so.

Aside from filtering or stopping down the aperture, unless you use different
(and more expensive) glass, you aren't going to reduce the color, regardless
of the "zonal control" g you achieve.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

"
Regards SV, the problem is you never know what Stellervue is doing to reduce
the color. For a while they were stopping down the aperture (see Ed Ting's
review). Then they went to applying an MV coating to the objective and
calling it a "proprietary" and "attenuated design" rather than admitting
they were filtering it. The last SV I saw had an MV filter applied to the
objective, but the owner insisted it didn't because SV had told him so.

Aside from filtering or stopping down the aperture, unless you use different
(and more expensive) glass, you aren't going to reduce the color, regardless
of the "zonal control" g you achieve.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

Chuck:

You're way behind the times and terribly misinformed there my friend.
The "stopping down the aperture" scenario affected ONLY the first 6
months of scopes produced and Vic indicated to his customers (I was
one of them) that there existed a problem with the 1 1/4" version (NOT
the 2" focuser version). Once the problem was resolved, he allowed
customers to send back their scopes for a retro-fit. For free. This
was WAY back in 2000. Very, very old news.

Now, as for the "attenuated design", this applied ONLY to the 102D and
not any of the other scopes Stellarvue produced. Sorry to disappoint
you there. The website, group site, and Stellarvue all indicated that
the minus violet coatings were only appled to that specific design
(102D) with the intent of reducing color. The latest version does not
have this coating, as Vic decided that it's easier (and less
expensive) to simply offer a filter that provides the same affect. It
was an interesting design and apparently worth the effort given the
reports provided by purchasers of the scope. Again, you're a bit
behind the times.

Try doing your homework before posting something intended to be
informative.

David

there is definitely room for another scope to bridge
the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

Let me get on my soapbox for a bit here.

Yes, we all want stuff for next to nothing, but this will ultimately have a
heavy social cost. When we produce a telescope here in the US and sell it, it
is not "overpriced" with respect to its actual production cost. A large part of
this cost is the result of paying prevailing wages to our employees (somewhat
lower here in the Midwest than in other areas). We also pay all local, state
and national taxes which go towards the maintainance and upkeep of our
community as well as the nation. In addition, our employees contribute, through
their taxes, to the welfare of our nation. They also purchase food, shelter and
transportation which helps to employ another whole raft of workers, who in turn
help to support their communities.

For each manufactured product made domestically, it has been estimated that 4
times as many people are employed locally and 6 times as many outside service
businesses are used as part of the manufacturing process vs. an imported
product. In other words, a large portion of the incoming revenue stays in the
community. With an imported product, the majority of workers, suppliers and
national governments that benefit from the production of the product are all
foreign.

Lastly, as a legitimate business in our community, we want to and have to abide
by all local, state and national regulations that govern manufacturers. We
would not pay slave wages, nor would we discriminate, nor would we pollute our
air and waterways to make a product cheaper. In the short run this would leave
more money in the consumer's pocket, but in the long run, you would all be
living with filthy air and foul water, not enough money for basics, and little
or no opportunity for a large majority of citizens. Little things add up. In
our case, we use CNC machines to cut metal and glass. It would be a whole lot
cheaper to dump waste oil from these processes right into the ground or into a
nearby creek. Instead we pay a hazardous waste handler to recycle these
products.

So next time you think you're being ripped off, remember that domestic
businesses have an uphill battle against foreign producers. We pay our full
share to our own communities. We all are trying to do things right - nobody is
trying to rip anyone off.

Roland Christen

Do you mean to say that you and your employees (including spinoff work) are
in this to make a living?
You are not doing it as a charitable/slave driven effort to provide
refractors for the price of an equivalent sized reflector?
Boy, do I smell capitalism as a partial reason for your scopes!
BFG

George

Clear skies and good health

"Chris1011" wrote in message
...

Big snip of a simple economics explanation

So next time you think you're being ripped off, remember that domestic
businesses have an uphill battle against foreign producers. We pay our
full
share to our own communities. We all are trying to do things right -
nobody is
trying to rip anyone off.

Roland Christen

(Chris1011) wrote in message ...
there is definitely room for another scope to bridge
the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

Let me get on my soapbox for a bit here.

Yes, we all want stuff for next to nothing, but this will ultimately have a
heavy social cost. When we produce a telescope here in the US and sell it, it
is not "overpriced" with respect to its actual production cost. A large part of
this cost is the result of paying prevailing wages to our employees (somewhat
lower here in the Midwest than in other areas). We also pay all local, state
and national taxes which go towards the maintainance and upkeep of our
community as well as the nation. In addition, our employees contribute, through
their taxes, to the welfare of our nation. They also purchase food, shelter and
transportation which helps to employ another whole raft of workers, who in turn
help to support their communities.

For each manufactured product made domestically, it has been estimated that 4
times as many people are employed locally and 6 times as many outside service
businesses are used as part of the manufacturing process vs. an imported
product. In other words, a large portion of the incoming revenue stays in the
community. With an imported product, the majority of workers, suppliers and
national governments that benefit from the production of the product are all
foreign.

Lastly, as a legitimate business in our community, we want to and have to abide
by all local, state and national regulations that govern manufacturers. We
would not pay slave wages, nor would we discriminate, nor would we pollute our
air and waterways to make a product cheaper. In the short run this would leave
more money in the consumer's pocket, but in the long run, you would all be
living with filthy air and foul water, not enough money for basics, and little
or no opportunity for a large majority of citizens. Little things add up. In
our case, we use CNC machines to cut metal and glass. It would be a whole lot
cheaper to dump waste oil from these processes right into the ground or into a
nearby creek. Instead we pay a hazardous waste handler to recycle these
products.

So next time you think you're being ripped off, remember that domestic
businesses have an uphill battle against foreign producers. We pay our full
share to our own communities. We all are trying to do things right - nobody is
trying to rip anyone off.

Roland Christen

Very good points, Roland.

But what about the "overpriced .... Russian/Taiwanese made products" g

Darian Rachal wrote:
(Chris1011) wrote in message ...

there is definitely room for another scope to bridge

the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

Let me get on my soapbox for a bit here.

Yes, we all want stuff for next to nothing, but this will ultimately have a
heavy social cost. When we produce a telescope here in the US and sell it, it
is not "overpriced" with respect to its actual production cost. A large part of
this cost is the result of paying prevailing wages to our employees (somewhat
lower here in the Midwest than in other areas). We also pay all local, state
and national taxes which go towards the maintainance and upkeep of our
community as well as the nation. In addition, our employees contribute, through
their taxes, to the welfare of our nation. They also purchase food, shelter and
transportation which helps to employ another whole raft of workers, who in turn
help to support their communities.

For each manufactured product made domestically, it has been estimated that 4
times as many people are employed locally and 6 times as many outside service
businesses are used as part of the manufacturing process vs. an imported
product. In other words, a large portion of the incoming revenue stays in the
community. With an imported product, the majority of workers, suppliers and
national governments that benefit from the production of the product are all
foreign.

Lastly, as a legitimate business in our community, we want to and have to abide
by all local, state and national regulations that govern manufacturers. We
would not pay slave wages, nor would we discriminate, nor would we pollute our
air and waterways to make a product cheaper. In the short run this would leave
more money in the consumer's pocket, but in the long run, you would all be
living with filthy air and foul water, not enough money for basics, and little
or no opportunity for a large majority of citizens. Little things add up. In
our case, we use CNC machines to cut metal and glass. It would be a whole lot
cheaper to dump waste oil from these processes right into the ground or into a
nearby creek. Instead we pay a hazardous waste handler to recycle these
products.

So next time you think you're being ripped off, remember that domestic
businesses have an uphill battle against foreign producers. We pay our full
share to our own communities. We all are trying to do things right - nobody is
trying to rip anyone off.

Roland Christen


Very good points, Roland.

(Chris1011) wrote in message ...
there is definitely room for another scope to bridge
the gap between the Chinese achros and overpriced
American/Russian/Taiwanese made products.
-Rich

Let me get on my soapbox for a bit here.

Excellent points Roland. I agree because I also am a small business owner.
In my case, the competition is the Wal-Mart with super discounts for quantity
buying from their sources, and Internet discount sellers with low/no
overhead.
I employ 5 people, who all contribute to our community like yours. I also
try to give excellent, personal service to my customers, and I know you do
also. But, some folks are after the cheapest price they can find and use it
as their only yardstick of where/what to purchase. I cannot afford to stay
in business, and keep my employees, if I sell at no profit by meeting the
above competition's prices. The money I sell products for is reasonable
(in my opinion), and certainly is not making me rich. BTW I am not in the
Optics Business.
Don't forget about the Insurance companies (Comp/liability & Medical) and
the phone co. and the Utility companies and others that we support too.
Plus, our employees aren't on welfare.
Just venting,
Wes

Chuck,

Regards SV, the problem is you never know what Stellervue is doing to reduce
the color.

When I look through my Stellarvue 80/9D and then pop the same ep in an
8" dob, or take a look through a big Tak, etc., I realize that there
are important differences - but, I also realize that my view is pretty
darn good - sometimes as good, or better. Frankly, I don't really care
what they're doing to get rid of color, improve contrast, flatness,
etc.

If you feel the SV claims were misleading, false, whatever, why not
contact Vic Maris? Certainly SV's copy is a whole lot more
straightforward than what Orion is putting out. (I'm only referring to
the past year - didn't know they existed before that.)

Cheers,

Gary Fuchs

If you feel the SV claims were misleading, false, whatever, why not
contact Vic Maris? Certainly SV's copy is a whole lot more
straightforward than what Orion is putting out. (I'm only referring to
the past year - didn't know they existed before that.)

This group has had an intimate relationship with SV and Vic Maris. You might
do a google search concerning the SV 102 EDT and the mystery glass. You might
discover the actual reasons why the SV 102 EDT had such a short run.

It is impossible to say at this moment whether Orion is blowing smoke with this
latest scope or not. Until someone actually tests one of these, it is no one
can say. In the past they have been straight shooters and responsible for some
interesting designs that have marked significant advances to the budget minded
astronomer.

jon