Saturn 5 Question

I knew that it's a urban myth that the Saturn 5 blueprints were
destroyed, but lately, I've seen in several space history forums on
the net, that the molds for the Saturn 5 were ordered by Nixon to be
destroyed......is this true? Joe

Tooling for Saturn V has long since been destroyed, not untypical.
Would you expect GM to keep production jigs for a '57 Chevy?

What I think is worse is that the country has lost the collective
engineering know-how that built Apollo/Saturn. These men have either
retired or died. This is different from other fields of engineering
where there is evolutionary change. Apollo workers went pedal to metal
for about ten years and then were quickly laid off. A few managed to
stay in aerospace and others went on to work on defense projects but
many found work elsewhere. I'm worried that the next generation of
space engineers will have to "re-invent the wheel" to accomplish any
big projects.

Gene DiGennaro
Baltimore, Md.

What I think is worse is that the country has lost the collective
engineering know-how that built Apollo/Saturn.

That's the nature of space engineering. It's too small of a field to
retain complete capability

Look on the sci.space.* groups at all the people who want to trash NASA
and lay off everyone who works on Shuttle. These people will all find
jobs in other fields, and getting them *back* into space work would be
one hell of a challenge.


I'm worried that the next generation of
space engineers will have to "re-invent the wheel" to accomplish any
big projects.

Yup. Once an entire industry has dried up and blown away, getting it
back means starting from square one.

On 17 Aug 2005 07:35:36 -0700, wrote:

Look on the sci.space.* groups at all the people who want to trash NASA
and lay off everyone who works on Shuttle. These people will all find
jobs in other fields, and getting them *back* into space work would be
one hell of a challenge.

....Then again, it should be noted that most of those bashing NASA and
calling for the end of the Shuttle program usually find that the other
fields they're qualified for are flipping burgers, digging ditches,
and giving blow jobs for crack.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

wrote:

Look on the sci.space.* groups at all the people who want to trash NASA
and lay off everyone who works on Shuttle. These people will all find
jobs in other fields, and getting them *back* into space work would be
one hell of a challenge.

We don't *want* them back into space work. The Shuttle program,
compared to a rational program, is overmanned by at *least* an order
of magnitude.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

We don't *want* them back into space work.

Then who would do it? If you wipe out 99% of those who know anything
about the practicalities of spacecraft design, manufacture and
operation, one of the *first* results will be to turn off investors.

Yes, get rid of the do-nothing management types, the retired-in-place
crowd, the lawyers. But a large fraction of those employed in the space
field are actually *capable.* And while an engineer at a rocket company
can go work electronics, say, the reverse is not necessarily true.
There is a LOT of tribal knowledge in this field.

The Shuttle program, compared to a rational program, is overmanned by at *least* an order
of magnitude.

A rational program would be *vast* in capability and flight rate
compared to Shuttle. But we got what we got. Lobotomizing your industry
is not a good idea if you want the capability to continue, much less
improve.

In article .com,
says...
Yes, get rid of the do-nothing management types,

As much as this engineer hates to admit it, for large, complex projects,
good management is more important than good engineering. (Personally,
I'm working in a company with less than 20 people for just this reason.)


There is a LOT of tribal knowledge in this field.

If so, the engineers aren't doing their job correctly. (And the
management is at fault for not correcting this problem.)


DL The Shuttle program, compared to a rational program, is overmanned by at *least* an order
DL of magnitude.
Lobotomizing your industry
is not a good idea if you want the capability to continue, much less
improve.

If the existing industry has a track record of wildly overspending and
under-delivering, not really achieving any useful results (has ISS
achieved anything that Skylab and MIR didn't already demonstrate?), why
would we want that capability to continue?
--
Kevin Willoughby lid

The loss of the American system of checks and balances
is more of a security danger than any terrorist risk.
-- Bruce Schneier

wrote:
We don't *want* them back into space work.

Then who would do it? If you wipe out 99% of those who know anything
about the practicalities of spacecraft design, manufacture and
operation, one of the *first* results will be to turn off investors.

laughs For the first two, they are already long gone from the
Shuttle program. The activities of the third are so unrelated to a
practical and rational spacecraft that they won't be missed.

The Shuttle program, compared to a rational program, is overmanned by at
*least* an order of magnitude.

A rational program would be *vast* in capability and flight rate
compared to Shuttle. But we got what we got. Lobotomizing your industry
is not a good idea if you want the capability to continue, much less
improve.

This is so disconnected from reality that I don't know where to start.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

wrote in message
oups.com...
What I think is worse is that the country has lost the collective
engineering know-how that built Apollo/Saturn.

That's the nature of space engineering. It's too small of a field to
retain complete capability

Look on the sci.space.* groups at all the people who want to trash NASA
and lay off everyone who works on Shuttle. These people will all find
jobs in other fields, and getting them *back* into space work would be
one hell of a challenge.


I'm worried that the next generation of
space engineers will have to "re-invent the wheel" to accomplish any
big projects.

Yup. Once an entire industry has dried up and blown away, getting it
back means starting from square one.

Isn't that showing now with the new lunar plans?

It's going to take over 10 years to get us back to where we were 40 years
ago!

"Max Turner" wrote:

Yup. Once an entire industry has dried up and blown away, getting it
back means starting from square one.

Isn't that showing now with the new lunar plans?
It's going to take over 10 years to get us back to where we were 40 years
ago!

Of course the fact that we are doing it on a budget this time, rather
than with nearly a blank check has *nothing* to do with it?

Idiot.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL