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The upcoming 4/25/05 Zenit 3SL launch by Sea Launch
will boost the 6 metric ton Spaceway 1 satellite directly to geosynchronous transfer orbit using a single Block DMSL upper stage burn. I think this is the first time Sea Launch has done this profile. At any rate, Spaceway 1 will, if successful, slightly better the previous commercial comsat mass record established last month by Inmarsat 4-F1, which was launched atop Atlas V AV-004 from Cape Canaveral. This record, in turn, is set to be beat in June when 6.1 ton Spaceway 2 is boosted to orbit by an Ariane 5ECA from Kourou. - Ed Kyle |
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Ed Kyle wrote:
The upcoming 4/25/05 Zenit 3SL launch by Sea Launch will boost the 6 metric ton Spaceway 1 satellite directly to geosynchronous transfer orbit using a single Block DMSL upper stage burn. I think this is the first time Sea Launch has done this profile. At any rate, Spaceway 1 will, if successful, slightly better the previous commercial comsat mass record established last month by Inmarsat 4-F1, which was launched atop Atlas V AV-004 from Cape Canaveral. The launch was a success, but the press release is a failu "http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q2/nr_050426s.html" "Sea Launch Company, LLC, headquartered in Long Beach, Calif., and marketed through Boeing Launch Services (www.boeing.com/launch), is the world's most reliable heavy-lift commercial launch service." I have to disagree. There are at least two heavy-lift commercial launchers with better records than Zenit 3SL at present, as follows. [1] [2] [3] [4] ------------------------------------ Proton-M/Briz-M 7(0) 1.00 .89 Atlas V 5(0) 1.00 .86 Zenit 3SL/DMSL 16(2) .88 .83 Ariane 5G(+,S) 19(3) .84 .81 Delta IV-M 3(0) 1.00 .80 [5] H-IIA 7(1) .86 .78 Ariane 5-ECA 2(1) .50 .50 Delta IV-H 1(1) .00 .33 [5] ------------------------------------ [1] Launcher [2] No. Launches(No. Failures) [3] Realized Rate [4] First level Bayesian estimate of mean predicted [5] Not currently offered for commercial launch probability of success for for next launch attempt (k+1)/(n+2) where k is the number of successful events and n is the number of trials. - Ed Kyle |
#3
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Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but they probably don't count one
of the Sea Launch failures on the grounds that the satellite made it to the correct orbit. In that case they'd get 0.94 realized rate, 0.88 Bayesian, and still lose to Proton. Murray Anderson "Ed Kyle" wrote in message oups.com... Ed Kyle wrote: The upcoming 4/25/05 Zenit 3SL launch by Sea Launch will boost the 6 metric ton Spaceway 1 satellite directly to geosynchronous transfer orbit using a single Block DMSL upper stage burn. I think this is the first time Sea Launch has done this profile. At any rate, Spaceway 1 will, if successful, slightly better the previous commercial comsat mass record established last month by Inmarsat 4-F1, which was launched atop Atlas V AV-004 from Cape Canaveral. The launch was a success, but the press release is a failu "http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q2/nr_050426s.html" "Sea Launch Company, LLC, headquartered in Long Beach, Calif., and marketed through Boeing Launch Services (www.boeing.com/launch), is the world's most reliable heavy-lift commercial launch service." I have to disagree. There are at least two heavy-lift commercial launchers with better records than Zenit 3SL at present, as follows. [1] [2] [3] [4] ------------------------------------ Proton-M/Briz-M 7(0) 1.00 .89 Atlas V 5(0) 1.00 .86 Zenit 3SL/DMSL 16(2) .88 .83 Ariane 5G(+,S) 19(3) .84 .81 Delta IV-M 3(0) 1.00 .80 [5] H-IIA 7(1) .86 .78 Ariane 5-ECA 2(1) .50 .50 Delta IV-H 1(1) .00 .33 [5] ------------------------------------ [1] Launcher [2] No. Launches(No. Failures) [3] Realized Rate [4] First level Bayesian estimate of mean predicted [5] Not currently offered for commercial launch probability of success for for next launch attempt (k+1)/(n+2) where k is the number of successful events and n is the number of trials. - Ed Kyle |
#4
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Murray Anderson wrote:
Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but they probably don't count one of the Sea Launch failures on the grounds that the satellite made it to the correct orbit. In that case they'd get 0.94 realized rate, 0.88 Bayesian, and still lose to Proton. You may be right, but I think they should count the Apstar 5 flight as a launch vehicle failure. Otherwise, they're deluding themselves about the true reliability of their vehicle. According to Airclaims Ltd, the Apstar 5 flight was a failure. [*see text below] "www.airclaims.com/Downloads/PressReleases/SpaceLauncherYear2004.pdf" I think most people in the industry (except for the good folks at Boeing who wrote the press release that started our conversation) see Proton as the most reliable big (~5+ ton to GTO) comsat launcher flying today. There have been 313 Proton launches (all types) but only 52 Zenit launches (all types, including 16 Sea Launch Zenit 3SL/DMSL vehicles). Since 1-1-2000, there were 44 Proton launches with one in-orbit upper stage failure. During the same period, there were only 18 Zenit flights with two failures (one an in-flight upper stage failure). Compared to Proton, Zenit is a newbie that is still being broken in. And, with the new Briz-M storable-propellant upper stage replacing the troublesome Energia Blok DM, Proton reliability should improve. During the Apstar 5 mission, the DMSL third stage shut down 54 seconds early due to a poorly understood electrical problem, leaving the payload transfer orbit apogee 15,000 km low. Apstar 5 made it to geosync on its own, but the launch vehicle suffered a failure. *[text from airclaims press release] "The overall launch vehicle failure rate, having run very low up to the end of 2004, suddenly increased with the maiden flight undershoot failure of the Boeing Delta IV Heavy launch swiftly followed by the third stage failure of a Ukrainian Tsyklon 3 rocket. Consequently 2004 concluded as an 'averageyear' with four launcher related failures out of 54 flights (7.4%). The other two launcher-related failures were the SHAVIT in September which dropped Israeli OFEQ 6 spy satellite into the Mediterranean Sea and thepremature shutdown of a Boeing Sea Launch ZENIT 3-SL (Sea Launch) in June, (caused by a short in the fuel system electronics), that almost stranded the APSTAR 5 (TELSTAR 18) commercial communications satellite." - Ed Kyle |
#5
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I'd count it as half a failure, and try to do that consistently. There was
an Ariane flight like that, I believe. If you include the Proton Block-DM flights, of course it's no contest. Since the beginning of 1991 there have been 119 Proton launches with 7 failures, giving 0.94 achieved success. That's inferior to the Atlas record in the same period, but Atlas has gone through extensive hardware change in the period (I to II to II to V). The Proton first stage has a particularly good record, the last failure being in 1982, with 216 subsequent flights without failure. Murray Anderson "Ed Kyle" wrote in message oups.com... Murray Anderson wrote: Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but they probably don't count one of the Sea Launch failures on the grounds that the satellite made it to the correct orbit. In that case they'd get 0.94 realized rate, 0.88 Bayesian, and still lose to Proton. You may be right, but I think they should count the Apstar 5 flight as a launch vehicle failure. Otherwise, they're deluding themselves about the true reliability of their vehicle. According to Airclaims Ltd, the Apstar 5 flight was a failure. [*see text below] "www.airclaims.com/Downloads/PressReleases/SpaceLauncherYear2004.pdf" I think most people in the industry (except for the good folks at Boeing who wrote the press release that started our conversation) see Proton as the most reliable big (~5+ ton to GTO) comsat launcher flying today. There have been 313 Proton launches (all types) but only 52 Zenit launches (all types, including 16 Sea Launch Zenit 3SL/DMSL vehicles). Since 1-1-2000, there were 44 Proton launches with one in-orbit upper stage failure. During the same period, there were only 18 Zenit flights with two failures (one an in-flight upper stage failure). Compared to Proton, Zenit is a newbie that is still being broken in. And, with the new Briz-M storable-propellant upper stage replacing the troublesome Energia Blok DM, Proton reliability should improve. During the Apstar 5 mission, the DMSL third stage shut down 54 seconds early due to a poorly understood electrical problem, leaving the payload transfer orbit apogee 15,000 km low. Apstar 5 made it to geosync on its own, but the launch vehicle suffered a failure. *[text from airclaims press release] "The overall launch vehicle failure rate, having run very low up to the end of 2004, suddenly increased with the maiden flight undershoot failure of the Boeing Delta IV Heavy launch swiftly followed by the third stage failure of a Ukrainian Tsyklon 3 rocket. Consequently 2004 concluded as an 'averageyear' with four launcher related failures out of 54 flights (7.4%). The other two launcher-related failures were the SHAVIT in September which dropped Israeli OFEQ 6 spy satellite into the Mediterranean Sea and thepremature shutdown of a Boeing Sea Launch ZENIT 3-SL (Sea Launch) in June, (caused by a short in the fuel system electronics), that almost stranded the APSTAR 5 (TELSTAR 18) commercial communications satellite." - Ed Kyle |
#6
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Murray Anderson wrote:
I'd count it as half a failure, and try to do that consistently. There was an Ariane flight like that, I believe. I count these "partial" failures as failures simply because they fall short of being called successes. In the case of the Sea Launch Apstar 5 launch, for example, the early DMSL stage shutdown cost the satellite a delta-v of about 345 meters/second. Apstar 5 must have had enough contingency propellant to allow it to recover from the launching error without shortening its planned lifetime (but its potential for an extended life has almost certainly been reduced). Other comsats would not have been so lucky. As I understand it, typical designs provide a total lifetime delta-v of less than 1,000 meters/sec for station keeping over the course of a 15-year planned lifetime. I haven't been able to find a partial success/failure figure of merit that I can be comfortable with. The Apstar 5 launch vehicle, for example, only provided roughly 96% of the planned total delta-v. Could we say it was 96% successful? That doesn't work because the launcher could have provided 75% of the planned total delta-v (and been "75% successful") and still failed to make orbit! And we certainly wouldn't call a launcher that blew up one minute into flight "5% successful"! - Ed Kyle |
#7
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Ed Kyle wrote:
Murray Anderson wrote: I'd count it as half a failure, and try to do that consistently. There was an Ariane flight like that, I believe. I count these "partial" failures as failures simply because they fall short of being called successes. You're unreasonably pessimistic, IMO. In the case of the Sea Launch Apstar 5 launch, for example, the early DMSL stage shutdown cost the satellite a delta-v of about 345 meters/second. Apstar 5 must have had enough contingency propellant to allow it to recover from the launching error without shortening its planned lifetime (but its potential for an extended life has almost certainly been reduced). Other comsats would not have been so lucky. So while the mission was a success it should count as a failure, because if the launch vehicle had been flying a different mission it wouldn't have succeeded? That doesn't make sense. I haven't been able to find a partial success/failure figure of merit that I can be comfortable with. Generally I use the criterion that if the payload made it into an oper- ational orbit under its own power it's a success, and it's a failure if it didn't. I'm not the only one to use this, since I picked it up from someone (but don't recall who). So the first Pegasus launch was a success, since the payload wasn't particular about what orbit it needed and could operate just fine from the one it got put into. The first Titan IV Milstar mission was a failure, since though the payload made orbit, it couldn't operate from the orbit it made nor get into an operational orbit under its own power. Also, the Intelsat VI launch was a failure for this reason, since while it did eventually reach an operational orbit, it required the intervention of a shuttle crew to do so. It's not a perfect metric, since the pass/fail mark depends on whether non-fatal anomalies happen to robust payloads or to "fragile" ones. But I haven't seen one I like better at this stage of the industry's evo- lution. (Eventually dispatch reliability will have to enter into it but not yet, in my opinion.) Mike ----- Michael Kent Apple II Forever!! St. Peters, MO |
#8
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Michael Kent wrote:
Ed Kyle wrote: In the case of the Sea Launch Apstar 5 launch, for example, the early DMSL stage shutdown cost the satellite a delta-v of about 345 meters/second. Apstar 5 must have had enough contingency propellant to allow it to recover from the launching error without shortening its planned lifetime (but its potential for an extended life has almost certainly been reduced). Other comsats would not have been so lucky. So while the mission was a success it should count as a failure, because if the launch vehicle had been flying a different mission it wouldn't have succeeded? That doesn't make sense. It makes sense if you are an insurance underwriter (or a satellite manufacturer or owner) who needs to know the true performance record of these launch vehicles. If you are an underwriter, you would record this as a launch vehicle failure because it would have resulted in a loss claim for most satellites. Many sats would have made GEO in this instance but suffered a loss of lifetime due to depleted station- keeping propellant. One reason Apstar 5 didn't lose lifetime is that it had an announced 13-year lifetime rather than the 15 years listed by many other sats. Although Apstar 5 happily made it to its station on orbit (a mission success for Apstar 5), the launch vehicle unquestionably suffered a serious failure. This failure cannot be ignored by those who take on the substantial financial risk of the satellite trade. As I wrote previously, insurance trade publications have listed the Apstar 5 flight as a launch vehicle failure. "www.airclaims.com/Downloads/PressReleases/SpaceLauncherYear2004.pdf" - Ed Kyle |
#9
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"Ed Kyle" writes:
As I wrote previously, insurance trade publications have listed the Apstar 5 flight as a launch vehicle failure. "www.airclaims.com/Downloads/PressReleases/SpaceLauncherYear2004.pdf" Did the insurance company actually *pay out any money* for Apstar 5? If not they are talking out of both sides of their mouth (traditional for insurance). They count it as a failure when justifying their rates, but I'll bet my bottom dollar they count it as a success when counting their profits. Lou Scheffer P.S. In some hypothetical rational world, satellites with large performance margins (propulsion, power) would get better insurance rates, since they can recover from a wider variety of problems without adverse effects. Anyone know if this is the case? |
#10
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![]() Ed Kyle wrote: Although Apstar 5 happily made it to its station on orbit (a mission success for Apstar 5), the launch vehicle unquestionably suffered a serious failure. This failure cannot be ignored by those who take on the substantial financial risk of the satellite trade. I think this is a very reasonable way to look at it. Apstar 5 was a launch vehicle failure (the vehicle failed meet its advertised minimum performance specifications) but not a mission failure. If you are measuring the ability of launch vehicles to meet their specifications, then this clearly fails on the "fail" side of the fence. If you are measuring percentage of payloads that perform their designated mission, that is a completely different story. It might be interesting to look at individual stages, rather than LV statistics. In that case, Apstar 5 would count as a success for Zenit sl stages 1 and 2, but a fail for Block DM. To get your overall chance of failure for a given LV, you could then combine the stats for its stages. In some cases (block DM being a possible example) this would give you a larger sample size for some components. Of course some failures could be hard to blame on a specific stage. Perhaps you need another category of non-stage specific things. You would also have to consider what variants of a given stage you can actually lump into the same catagory (proton DM vs DMSL). |
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