Trust But Verify ...

rk wrote:

The Buran had been detected only by chance; the Soviets did not realize
the KH-11 was a reconnaissance satellite. Whenever a KH-9 satellite had
overflown the test center where the Buran was being built, activities had
been suspended and the Buran covered by netting ...


I sort of doubt that they wouldn't know that KH-11 was a recon sat, both
it's orbital path and altitude would have differentiated it from a
ferret satellite, plus they would have taken photos of it in orbit, and
it would have looked different from a SIGINT or RORSAT.


Clearly Buran was not a copy of the US Shuttle.

You are joking, aren't you? Even they finally admitted they had ripped
the shuttle off in the same way they ripped the B-29 off as the Tu-4,
though Buran wasn't as exact of a coy as the Tu-4 was.
Speaking of Soviet copies, the Su-25 "Frogfoot" ground attack aircraft:
http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/russia/su-25.gif
...and the Northrop A-9, the competition to the A-10:
http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/usa/northrop_a-9.gif
As to other Soviet/Russian copies, ever see something that looks like
this before?:
http://207.151.154.167/catalog/image...8/12155757.jpg
http://207.151.154.167/catalog/image...8/12155808.jpg
http://207.151.154.167/catalog/image...8/12155821.jpg
This is the Myasishchev M-67 LK-M high altitude recon plane design;
given this and the A-9, I'd say that Northrop had a mole or two on its
payroll.

So I am curious about the
rest of the book and perhaps a good topic for some, er, discussion.

That would be one way to put it. :-)

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in
I sort of doubt that they wouldn't know that KH-11 was a recon sat, both
it's orbital path and altitude would have differentiated it from a
ferret satellite, plus they would have taken photos of it in orbit, and
it would have looked different from a SIGINT or RORSAT.

There is a delicious story involving deliberate US deception here.

Our side misled the Russkies into NOT worrying about a bird that
obviously WAS in a reccesat-type orbit, or so it is said.

I have been assured by deep-inside veterans that a) the story is true,
and b) the story is false.

JimO wrote:

There is a delicious story involving deliberate US deception here.

Our side misled the Russkies into NOT worrying about a bird that
obviously WAS in a reccesat-type orbit, or so it is said.

I have been assured by deep-inside veterans that a) the story is true,
and b) the story is false.


How does The Cigarette Smoking Man figure into all this? :-D

Pat

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:


JimO wrote:

There is a delicious story involving deliberate US deception here.

Our side misled the Russkies into NOT worrying about a bird that
obviously WAS in a reccesat-type orbit, or so it is said.

I have been assured by deep-inside veterans that a) the story is true,
and b) the story is false.


How does The Cigarette Smoking Man figure into all this? :-D

That's *obvious* it's -not- a _pipe_dream_. groan.

B

:There is a delicious story involving deliberate US deception here.
:
:Our side misled the Russkies into NOT worrying about a bird that
:obviously WAS in a reccesat-type orbit, or so it is said.
:
:I have been assured by deep-inside veterans that a) the story is true,
:and b) the story is false.
:

: How does The Cigarette Smoking Man figure into all this? :-D

Woodward and Bernstein refuse to say while he's still alive. ;-)

regards,
-------------------------------------------------------

Pat Flannery wrote


I sort of doubt that they wouldn't know that KH-11 was a recon sat, both
it's orbital path and altitude would have differentiated it from a
ferret satellite, plus they would have taken photos of it in orbit, and
it would have looked different from a SIGINT or RORSAT.


See http://www.fas.org/spp/military/prog.../tm120402.html

Allen Thomson wrote:


See http://www.fas.org/spp/military/prog.../tm120402.html


Then there's the rumor that they actually took command of the satellite
and used it to photograph _our_ missile sites and send the data to them,
"Ice Station Zebra" style.
But that seems pretty far-fetched.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote


Then there's the rumor that they actually took command of the satellite
and used it to photograph _our_ missile sites and send the data to them,
"Ice Station Zebra" style.

But that seems pretty far-fetched.

The fetchedness of that is pretty far. The location of our sites was
never very secret -- they tended to be marked by DO NOT ENTER
signs. And the command links on the KH-11s were encrypted.

(Interestingly, the command links on some earlier US and Soviet
sats weren't. There was an NRL engineer who figured out how the
Soviet RORSATs were commanded, and got scolded badly for doing
a little experiment...)

(Allen Thomson) writes:

(Interestingly, the command links on some earlier US and Soviet
sats weren't. There was an NRL engineer who figured out how the
Soviet RORSATs were commanded, and got scolded badly for doing
a little experiment...)

Are you just gonna let us hang there?? Have a heart!

-gc

--
"I am vehy 'appy. Is possible to push vehy hard. And is possible win"
- Valentino Rossi

: (Interestingly, the command links on some earlier US and Soviet
: sats weren't. There was an NRL engineer who figured out how the
: Soviet RORSATs were commanded, and got scolded badly for doing
: a little experiment...)

: Are you just gonna let us hang there?? Have a heart!

I was told this was an old wives tale, and I'm inclined to
believe that it didn't happen. That would have been a treaty violation
and a quick firing (at the least), if only because if we thought we knew
how to do such a thing we'd be *very* careful to keep our knowledge
secret. Secondly, there are a variety of ways (above and beyond encryption
of the link) to ward off intrusion attempts.
Besides, it would be a little hard for an NRL engineer to command
a spacecraft from his cubicle. He would have to write a memo, calling a
meeting, to discuss issuing a message........ :-)

tech: What whould we set the transmit power level at?
engineer: Uhhh, just put it on maximimum and see who complains.

div O: This software has been tested, hasn't it?
engineer: just as soon as you go on-line.

engineer: "...suffered premature mission termination."
rocket: "BOOM!"

Brings back memories of the "Not Quite Ready for Prime Time" install team.

regards,
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