The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian

The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

[This is because as the ping-pong ball
travels closer and closer to the center
of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
that there will be a growing amount of
Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

Conclusions from the above
thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun, or certainly a cavernous region
therein where there isn't as much Sun-
matter as there must be surrounding it.
According to the current laws of gravity.

However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!

These are two self-excluding viewpoints:

One of them can be correct while the other
one is not. But both of them cannot be
correct at the same time: Either gravity exists
AND the center of the Sun (of every star) is
hollow. Or fusion DOES indeed take place
at the center of the stars because the center
of every star is its region of maximun
pressure--and therefore the effect of
gravity is "somehow" negated/voided
inside the stars. *

Which is it? SEE:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com

* Of course, once The Great Thinkers
(who once thought the world was flat,
that the universe revolved around the
Earth, that Dark Matter and Dark Energy
explained the observable deficiencies
of gravity, that the entire universe
erupted from a magic bean, and that
it was constructed of vibrating strings
tuned into existence by unimaginably
tiny mathematicians)... once The Great
Thinkers think on this self-contradiction
awhile I'm sure they will be able to
come up with any number of their usual
outrageously reality-denying/logic-
twisting solutions to this puzzle.

.... when they could just visit:
http://physics.sdrodrian.com

And WHY have none of them even
thought about this self-contradiction
(when it's so impertinently obvious)...?

Well, because we teach our so-called
Great Thinkers to learn by rote: "2times3
is33...2times4is104...4times5is55..."
and so on. And we not only require
that they do not challenge the validity
of what we are "teaching them" but
we actually demand that they accept it
all as The Indisputable Truth Eternal:

Can you imagine what would happen
if when the Great Professor is mumbling
"7times3is859..." to his class a student
were to get up and exclaim: "Professor,
you, sir, are an ignorant baboon: 7 X 3
is 21." Now: What grade do you believe
such a mere student would get? And
what student does not understand this?

By the way: The dramatization above is
an exaggeration for purposes of illustration
only. [This disclaimer is always required
when addressing former students of all
such universities, I'm sorry to say. SDR]

Ah! O well ...


..

On Oct 7, 6:34*pm, Aardvark wrote:
* The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

*[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
*you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

* [When it is at the Sun's surface,
* the pull of the Sun's gravity on
* the ping-pong ball will be at its
* maximum.]

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

* [This is because as the ping-pong ball
* travels closer and closer to the center
* of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
* ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
* that there will be a growing amount of
* Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]
jr writes
Your entire thought conjecture is far worse than Einstein's thought
conjectures. The ping pong ball cannot be. And if it were the
pressure of the mass it has penetrated will crush it not attract it.
Have a good time.
johnreed

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

* * *Conclusions from the above
* * * * *thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun, or certainly a cavernous region
therein where there isn't as much Sun-
matter as there must be surrounding it.
According to the current laws of gravity.

However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!

*These are two self-excluding viewpoints:

One of them can be correct while the other
one is not. But both of them cannot be
correct at the same time: Either gravity exists
AND the center of the Sun (of every star) is
hollow. Or fusion DOES indeed take place
at the center of the stars because the center
of every star is its region of maximun
pressure--and therefore the effect of
gravity is "somehow" negated/voided
inside the stars. **

Which is it? SEE:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

S D Rodrianhttp://sdrodrian.comhttp://physics.sdrodrian.comhttp://mp3.sdrodrian.com

* Of course, once The Great Thinkers
(who once thought the world was flat,
that the universe revolved around the
Earth, that Dark Matter and Dark Energy
explained the observable deficiencies
of gravity, that the entire universe
erupted from a magic bean, and that
it was constructed of vibrating strings
tuned into existence by unimaginably
tiny mathematicians)... once The Great
Thinkers think on this self-contradiction
awhile I'm sure they will be able to
come up with any number of their usual
outrageously reality-denying/logic-
twisting solutions to this puzzle.

... when they could just visit:http://physics.sdrodrian.com

And WHY have none of them even
thought about this self-contradiction
(when it's so impertinently obvious)...?

Well, because we teach our so-called
Great Thinkers to learn by rote: "2times3
is33...2times4is104...4times5is55..."
and so on. And we not only require
that they do not challenge the validity
of what we are "teaching them" but
we actually demand that they accept it
all as The Indisputable Truth Eternal:

Can you imagine what would happen
if when the Great Professor is mumbling
"7times3is859..." to his class a student
were to get up and exclaim: "Professor,
you, sir, are an ignorant baboon: 7 X 3
is 21." Now: What grade do you believe
such a mere student would get? And
what student does not understand this?

By the way: The dramatization above is
an exaggeration for purposes of illustration
only. [This disclaimer is always required
when addressing former students of all
such universities, I'm sorry to say. SDR]

Ah! O well ...

.

In article 969cc108-c6ac-4ef2-933c-0a1045729cb8@
2g2000prl.googlegroups.com, says...
Your entire thought conjecture is far worse than Einstein's thought
conjectures. The ping pong ball cannot be.

The whole point of having thought conjecture's is that "they cannot be".
Otherwise you would just do the experiment.


And if it were the
pressure of the mass it has penetrated will crush it not attract it.

It is a magic ping-pong ball and is affected only by gravity. That is,
not affected by anything else. Not perturbed by forces other than
gravity. Impervious to non-gravitational forces. I thought that was
explained.


Have a good time.


And you.

--
Alan LeHun

"Aardvark" wrote in message
...
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

OK Got it.

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

OK

[This is because as the ping-pong ball
travels closer and closer to the center
of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
that there will be a growing amount of
Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

OK

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

Assuming no momentum effects then yes but were the heck did the big hollow
come from???

Conclusions from the above
thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun, or certainly a cavernous region
therein where there isn't as much Sun-
matter as there must be surrounding it.
According to the current laws of gravity.

Not a conclusion at all. You have a complete non-sequitur there. Nothing you
said leads to a hollow. What holds the hollow in place? what prevents the
sun's mass from collapsing into the void given that every particle that has
mass will attract every other particle with mass until they reach an
equilibium?

Andy

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

OK


Actually, this is not generally true and hence not "OK". It is always true
if the body has constant density, but the Sun doesn't. It may also be true
for the Sun, as long as you are careful about where you define the surface
of the Sun to be, but cannot just be assumed to be true.

I can certainly give you mass distributions which are spherically symmetric
but for which gravity is higher underground than on the surface. As an
extreme example imagine the Sun had a black hole the size of a grain of sand
at its centre. The gravity near the surface of that grain of sand would far
exceed that on the surface of the Sun. Not that black holes are needed for a
counter example - the object just needs much higher densities at its core
than it has on the surface.

Not that this in any way affects the validity of your argument.

In article 1c14d5b0-1d87-407c-9dc9-
, says...
However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!


Yes. This may well be due to the sun being made, not of magic ping-pong
balls, but of normal matter which, unlike said magic ping-pong balls,
are affected by forces other than gravity.

You are however, correct in surmising that gravitational forces in the
center of stars are negligible.

hth

--
Alan LeHun

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:15:07 +0100, Alan LeHun
wrote:

In article 1c14d5b0-1d87-407c-9dc9-
, says...
However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!


Yes. This may well be due to the sun being made, not of magic ping-pong
balls, but of normal matter which, unlike said magic ping-pong balls,
are affected by forces other than gravity.

You are however, correct in surmising that gravitational forces in the
center of stars are negligible.

Or any other spherical body, for that matter. For a hollow
sphere, the gravition is zero anywhere within the hollow.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Aardvark"
...
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

And "hydrostatic" pressure is zero.

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

And the hydrostatic pressure will begin to increase.

[This is because as the ping-pong ball
travels closer and closer to the center
of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
that there will be a growing amount of
Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

The hydraulic pressure will achive its maximum.

Conclusions from the above
thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun, or certainly a cavernous region
therein where there isn't as much Sun-
matter as there must be surrounding it.
According to the current laws of gravity.

If there is the maximum pressure there is the region with the most condensed
matter.
S*

However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!

These are two self-excluding viewpoints:

One of them can be correct while the other
one is not. But both of them cannot be
correct at the same time: Either gravity exists
AND the center of the Sun (of every star) is
hollow. Or fusion DOES indeed take place
at the center of the stars because the center
of every star is its region of maximun
pressure--and therefore the effect of
gravity is "somehow" negated/voided
inside the stars. *

Which is it? SEE:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com

* Of course, once The Great Thinkers
(who once thought the world was flat,
that the universe revolved around the
Earth, that Dark Matter and Dark Energy
explained the observable deficiencies
of gravity, that the entire universe
erupted from a magic bean, and that
it was constructed of vibrating strings
tuned into existence by unimaginably
tiny mathematicians)... once The Great
Thinkers think on this self-contradiction
awhile I'm sure they will be able to
come up with any number of their usual
outrageously reality-denying/logic-
twisting solutions to this puzzle.

... when they could just visit:
http://physics.sdrodrian.com

And WHY have none of them even
thought about this self-contradiction
(when it's so impertinently obvious)...?

Well, because we teach our so-called
Great Thinkers to learn by rote: "2times3
is33...2times4is104...4times5is55..."
and so on. And we not only require
that they do not challenge the validity
of what we are "teaching them" but
we actually demand that they accept it
all as The Indisputable Truth Eternal:

Can you imagine what would happen
if when the Great Professor is mumbling
"7times3is859..." to his class a student
were to get up and exclaim: "Professor,
you, sir, are an ignorant baboon: 7 X 3
is 21." Now: What grade do you believe
such a mere student would get? And
what student does not understand this?

By the way: The dramatization above is
an exaggeration for purposes of illustration
only. [This disclaimer is always required
when addressing former students of all
such universities, I'm sorry to say. SDR]

Ah! O well ...


.

Dear Aardvark:

On Oct 7, 6:34*pm, Aardvark wrote:
* The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

*[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
*you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

Like Dark Matter.

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

* [When it is at the Sun's surface,
* the pull of the Sun's gravity on
* the ping-pong ball will be at its
* maximum.]

Actually, no. Even on Earth, with a roughly uniform density, g
increases for some distance below ground. The Sun's denisty increases
for as deep as we can receive light of any wavelength.

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

At some distance below the surface, but OK.

* [This is because as the ping-pong ball
* travels closer and closer to the center
* of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
* ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
* that there will be a growing amount of
* Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

"differential" or "un-offset" mass decreases.

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

Does the ping pong ball have no momentum? If not, how was it
travelling in the first place?

* * *Conclusions from the above
* * * * *thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun, or certainly a cavernous region
therein where there isn't as much Sun-
matter as there must be surrounding it.
According to the current laws of gravity.

Does not follow. Matter has momentum, and matter interacts in ways
other than gravitationally. Therefore there is pressure to keep
matter above from moving below.

However, current theory says that the center
of the Sun (of every star) is the place where
the greatest amount of pressure exists. In
fact: It is at the center of every star that the
fusion that keeps a star "going" is taking
place--exactly because this is the region of
the highest amount of gravitational pressures!

And pressure also is seen to increase, as far down as we can see.

*These are two self-excluding viewpoints:

One of them can be correct

That the components of the Sun interact by other than gravity...

while the other one is not.

That matter in the Sun is Dark Matter-like.

But both of them cannot be correct at the
same time:

Done.

Either gravity exists AND the center of the
Sun (of every star) is hollow.

Clearly in contradiction with the available data, and without any
merit.

Or fusion DOES indeed take place at the
center of the stars because the center
of every star is its region of maximun
pressure--and therefore the effect of
gravity is "somehow" negated/voided
inside the stars. **

Which is it?

The "somehow voided" is called "pressure". Normal matter is not Dark
Mater-like.

David A. Smith

Aardvark wrote:

The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

[A mind experiment--Therefore, if
you do not have a mind, forget it.]

Imagine a magical ping-pong ball
which is only affected by gravity.
That is its only quality. (Therefore
it can travel inside the Sun without
being destroyed.) Now...

This ping-pong ball is approaching
the surface of the Sun. As it does so
the pull of the Sun's gravity gradually
increases on the ping-pong ball.

As the inverse square of the distance between the two centers of
mass.

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

No. The sun is not a homogeneous body with depth, nor is the Earth,

"CRC Handbook," 88th Edition, p. 14-13.
http://www.splung.com/kinematics/images/gravitation/variation%20of%20g.png
http://www.typnet.net/Essays/EarthGrav.htm
bottom
Terrestrial gee increases with depth to 50% radius

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

BULL****

[This is because as the ping-pong ball
travels closer and closer to the center
of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
that there will be a growing amount of
Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

You are ignorant at best, and most likely stupid.

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

Conclusions from the above
thought experiment:

There is either a huge cavity at the center
of the Sun,
[snip rest of crap]

Stupid confirmed. What of the weight of the overlying strata?

idiot

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2