Shrinking Orion's crew

Bye-bye six-crew Orion; hello four-crew Orion:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...20Orion%20Crew
This is looking a little more Apollo-like.. and a little more
doomed...all the time.
It also means a complete ISS crew switch with one flight is now out
once the ISS goes up to six crew.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
Bye-bye six-crew Orion; hello four-crew Orion:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...20Orion%20Crew
This is looking a little more Apollo-like.. and a little more doomed...all
the time.
It also means a complete ISS crew switch with one flight is now out once
the ISS goes up to six crew.

Pat

No real surprise; just disappointment. :-(

What about Lunar mission scenarios; two crew? :-\

"Alan Erskine" wrote:

:"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
hdakotatelephone...
: Bye-bye six-crew Orion; hello four-crew Orion:
: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...20Orion%20Crew
: This is looking a little more Apollo-like.. and a little more doomed...all
: the time.
: It also means a complete ISS crew switch with one flight is now out once
: the ISS goes up to six crew.
:
:
:No real surprise; just disappointment. :-(
:
:What about Lunar mission scenarios; two crew? :-\
:

I think they're talking about still staying with four, as I read it.
Since the concern is weight on the parachutes, there's no reason to
drop the lunar crew below 4.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

I think they're talking about still staying with four, as I read it.
Since the concern is weight on the parachutes, there's no reason to
drop the lunar crew below 4.

A 250kg weight difference between four and six crew? I would think that
would be a very minor problem and easy to deal with.

I think OM might be right - it might have something to do with crew rotation
rather than mass.

Alan Erskine wrote:
A 250kg weight difference between four and six crew? I would think that
would be a very minor problem and easy to deal with.


Life support and food and water - although the two added crew and their
seats might come in at that weight once you stick their pressure suits
on, the stuff to keep them alive on the mission won't be that light once
added to overall spacecraft weight.
It does show just what a razor's edge Orion is riding on when it comes
to the expected lifting capacity of the Ares 1.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:
:
:Alan Erskine wrote:
:
: A 250kg weight difference between four and six crew? I would think that
: would be a very minor problem and easy to deal with.
:
:
:Life support and food and water - although the two added crew and their
:seats might come in at that weight once you stick their pressure suits
n, the stuff to keep them alive on the mission won't be that light once
:added to overall spacecraft weight.
:It does show just what a razor's edge Orion is riding on when it comes
:to the expected lifting capacity of the Ares 1.
:

But the issue isn't what Ares I can lift. It's how much the
parachutes can support on return if one of the three chutes fouls. A
crew of six takes weight beyond that safety margin.

--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
"Alan Erskine" wrote:
:What about Lunar mission scenarios; two crew? :-\

I think they're talking about still staying with four, as I read it.
Since the concern is weight on the parachutes, there's no reason to
drop the lunar crew below 4.

Where's the margin to carry home some lunar rocks? If the parachutes can't
handle two extra crew, how are scientists on earth supposed to get their
lunar samples?

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

"Jeff Findley" wrote:

:
:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
.. .
: "Alan Erskine" wrote:
: :What about Lunar mission scenarios; two crew? :-\
:
: I think they're talking about still staying with four, as I read it.
: Since the concern is weight on the parachutes, there's no reason to
: drop the lunar crew below 4.
:
:Where's the margin to carry home some lunar rocks? If the parachutes can't
:handle two extra crew, how are scientists on earth supposed to get their
:lunar samples?
:

Again, it helps to actually READ THE ARTICLE, Jeff.

"Jeff Hanley, manager of the Constellation Program that is developing
the Orion, its Ares I crew launch vehicle and the follow-on lunar
vehicles, told Aviation Week on April 22 that the Orion design is
within "plus or minus a couple of hundred pounds" of the 21,000-pound
maximum for the command module set by a requirement to land safely
with only two of the three main parachutes deployed."

Still got room for lots of rocks. The biggest Apollo sample return
was still less than 100 pounds. If you're within a couple hundred
pounds of the limit and you remove a couple of 180 pound astronauts
(plus the weight of their seats), you've got lots of margin for rocks.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Fred J. McCall wrote:

"Jeff Findley" wrote:

:
:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
. ..
: "Alan Erskine" wrote:
: :What about Lunar mission scenarios; two crew? :-\
:
: I think they're talking about still staying with four, as I read it.
: Since the concern is weight on the parachutes, there's no reason to
: drop the lunar crew below 4.
:
:Where's the margin to carry home some lunar rocks? If the parachutes can't
:handle two extra crew, how are scientists on earth supposed to get their
:lunar samples?
:

Again, it helps to actually READ THE ARTICLE, Jeff.

"Jeff Hanley, manager of the Constellation Program that is developing
the Orion, its Ares I crew launch vehicle and the follow-on lunar
vehicles, told Aviation Week on April 22 that the Orion design is
within "plus or minus a couple of hundred pounds" of the 21,000-pound
maximum for the command module set by a requirement to land safely
with only two of the three main parachutes deployed."

Still got room for lots of rocks. The biggest Apollo sample return
was still less than 100 pounds. If you're within a couple hundred
pounds of the limit and you remove a couple of 180 pound astronauts
(plus the weight of their seats), you've got lots of margin for rocks.

Well, keep in mind that the weight limit applies during an abort as
well - so the possible upper limit of sample return will be higher
than the margin at launch due to consumables.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

Still got room for lots of rocks. The biggest Apollo sample return
was still less than 100 pounds. If you're within a couple hundred
pounds of the limit and you remove a couple of 180 pound astronauts
(plus the weight of their seats), you've got lots of margin for rocks.


Helps to read the damn history Fred. :-)

Apollo 17 returned 109 lb of lunar samples.

Seriously though, points otherwise well noted.



--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.