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The post is duplicated at this address.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html -------- Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit1.gif The Sun is 5555556 times the mass of Mercury, and Mercury's orbit eccentricity from aphelion to perihelion is 2.4E+10 meters, so the Sun will oscillate over only 4320 meters. When a change in the force of gravity is rapidly introduced into the system, i.e. during the fall or rise between the aphelion and perihelion, the change is necessarily directly added to or subtracted from the normal Newtonian gravity rate and the consequence will be as per diagrams. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc2.jpg But that has nothing to do with the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's motion to and from the Sun, _which has slowly evolved to its current state over millions of years._ In the next diagram, the oscillatory motion of an object moving along the trajectory of the yellow line has been well established, and the straight line represents the plane where all forces will be zero. In order to halt the downward motion at point 1 and send it back to intersect with the line at point 2, a constant force is applied for the duration of the journey between points 1 and 2. The same applies for the journey between points 2 and 3, but the force direction is reversed. There's no other way the system could function. And it's permanently sustainable so long as the forces remain. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc6.jpg The force directions are exactly the same as those for the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's radial velocity relative to the Sun. In that case they act at 90 degrees to the line between the aphelion and perihelion. It's also exactly the same system as that for Mercury's natural elliptical orbit, where the forces are applied along the line through the aphelion and perihelion (not shown). http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc5.jpg When the straight line graph is converted to an elliptical orbit, the forces all point in the same direction relative to the universe. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc8.jpg This diagram was generated using the true anisotropy which is added to the Newtonian gravity rate. It's totally unsustainable and has nothing whatever to do with the gravity anisotropy. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc4.jpg http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc7.jpg This is the only thing of consequence resulting from the anisotropy. The Sun and Mercury oscillate back and forth as though they are connected by some invisible spring. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit2.gif The eccentricity in that system is around .00048 that of the natural orbit system. Since both systems function in exactly the same way, they will proportionally play the same role in determining the rate of perihelion advance, if there is a role to play. The only apparent in-elasticity in each system is through variations in the time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury. At the perihelion of Mercury's orbit, the delay in its relationship with the Sun is (perihelion radius divided by the speed of light) = 153 seconds. By the time it has reached its aphelion the delay has become 233 seconds. It has lost an additional 80 seconds in its relationship with the Sun. The time delay has some consequence. It will cause Mercury's natural trajectory to point further away from the Sun enroute to the aphelion because centrifugal force is unaffected by gravity, while centripetal force has been reduced over the increasing delay time as Mercury moves further away from the Sun. Mercury would be traveling faster toward the aphelion than normally expected. Enroute to the perihelion, the relationship between the Sun and Mercury has gained an additional 80 seconds. Radial velocity will again increase asymmetrically compared with a naturally flowing orbit. Any deviation from the natural flow of a stable elliptical orbit will have gyroscopic consequences that will manifest themselves at 90 degrees to the change direction. The initial asymmetric force direction is not where the force has been counteracted. That is always advanced by 90 degrees. On average, the asymmetric force is geared toward directly advancing Mercury's orbit ellipse. If the average radial velocity is around 5000 m/sec (it's more), multiplying that by 80 * 2 seconds for the complete orbit gives a 800000 meter advance for each orbit cycle, which is far too much. But the story doesn't end there. The time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury is measured in the realm of light-time-gravity, where all linear measurements involve the dual planes of dimension perpendicular to the line along which the measurement is taken. But such a line doesn't exist in that realm because every measurement involves all dimensions. The hypotenuse length of the imaginary right angle triangle scribed in space by a light ray emerging perpendicular to the line of motion, from a source which is moving relative to the local frame, is determined with the Pythagoras equation a^2 + b^2 = c^2. Measurements from the realm of matter are squared and thus elevated to the realm of light-time-gravity so that they can be properly added (in this case). The square root of the result returns it to the realm of matter. The 80 second time shortfall difference between the aphelion and perihelion radii was determined assuming that time measurements can be determined as they are in the realm of matter, which is wrong. Converting the time measurements to the realm of matter by taking the square root of the aphelion radius and dividing it by the speed of light and subtracting from it, the square root of the perihelion radius divided by the speed of light, results in a time shortfall equivalent in the realm of matter of 2.98 seconds. With the average radial velocity set at 5000 m/sec; 5000 * 2.98 * 2 = 29800 meters is the advance per orbit cycle, which is 44 arcseconds per century. The gravity anisotropy adds around .02 arcseconds to that result. Directly comparing anything to do with light, time or gravity within the realm of matter cannot give a proper result unless the square root of each component is taken prior to the comparison. I set up a program based on the above which indexed around the orbit in 1 degree increments. The final advance for the complete orbit was 28787 meters per orbit, which is 42.46 arcseconds per century (42.48 including a gravity anisotropy). ---------- Mercury's perihelion advance within the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system indicates that the system is not entirely elastic. If the varying time delay is the cause, it will also account for the lack of elasticity in each closed gravitating system formed between the Sun and every individual component of matter in the universe. The average elasticity in all Sun-universe systems is .36%, as is demonstrated at http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/darkmatr.html ----- Max Keon |
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wrote:
[snip crap] - The time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury is measured in the realm of light-time-gravity, where all linear measurements involve the dual planes of dimension perpendicular to the line along which the measurement is taken. But such a line doesn't exist in that realm because every measurement involves all dimensions. [snip rest of crap] Max Keon http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2006-3/ http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039 Experimental constraints on General Relativity idiot -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:07:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: [...] All those attempts to discuss an orbit and the most detailed math that appears is Pythagoreas. Find a new hobby. |
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wrote:
The post is duplicated at this address. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html -------- Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. Not a closed system. Jupiter perturbes the orbid of Mercury. Bob Kolker |
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On Oct 27, 7:28*am, "Robert J. Kolker" wrote:
wrote: *The post is duplicated at this address. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html *-------- *Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. Not a closed system. Jupiter perturbes the orbid of Mercury. Bob Kolker ....as do Venus, the earth, the moon, Mars, etc. Tom Davidson Richmond, VA |
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On Oct 28, 8:13*pm, tadchem wrote:
On Oct 27, 7:28am, "Robert J. Kolker" wrote: wrote: The post is duplicated at this address. http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html -------- Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. Not a closed system. Jupiter perturbes the orbid of Mercury. Bob Kolker ...as do Venus, the earth, the moon, Mars, etc. As does every other clump of matter in the universe. And every single one of them forms an individual closed gravitating system with Mercury. The same applies for every individual clump of matter in the universe, where every other clump of matter in the universe forms a closed gravitating system with it. Why do you think that so strange? Now that you understand all that, perhaps you're ready to visit http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/darkmatr.html which is fundamentally related to this subject. It has been updated, because it contained an error and to make it easier to follow. ----- Max Keon |
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On 27 Oct, 11:28, "Robert J. Kolker" wrote:
wrote: *The post is duplicated at this address. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html *-------- *Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. Not a closed system. Jupiter perturbes the orbid of Mercury. The GR correction is on top of all other perturbations. I don't know anything about elasticity, the simple fact of the matter is that Mercury is determined by the Scwartzchild metric, that is to say it is attracted not to the center of the Sun but a point some distance away - the Schwarzchild radius. Leverrier took account of Jupiter and all the other planets, but still the error remained. - Ian Parker |
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On Oct 26, 4:07*pm, wrote:
*The post is duplicated at this address. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html *-------- *Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit1.gif The Sun is 5555556 times the mass of Mercury, and Mercury's orbit eccentricity from aphelion to perihelion is 2.4E+10 meters, so the Sun will oscillate over only 4320 meters. When a change in the force of gravity is rapidly introduced into the system, i.e. during the fall or rise between the aphelion and perihelion, the change is necessarily directly added to or subtracted from the normal Newtonian gravity rate and the consequence will be as per diagrams. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc2.jpg But that has nothing to do with the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's motion to and from the Sun, _which has slowly evolved to its current state over millions of years._ In the next diagram, the oscillatory motion of an object moving along the trajectory of the yellow line has been well established, and the straight line represents the plane where all forces will be zero. In order to halt the downward motion at point 1 and send it back to intersect with the line at point 2, a constant force is applied for the duration of the journey between points 1 and 2. The same applies for the journey between points 2 and 3, but the force direction is reversed. There's no other way the system could function. And it's permanently sustainable so long as the forces remain. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc6.jpg The force directions are exactly the same as those for the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's radial velocity relative to the Sun. In that case they act at 90 degrees to the line between the aphelion and perihelion. It's also exactly the same system as that for Mercury's natural elliptical orbit, where the forces are applied along the line through the aphelion and perihelion (not shown). *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc5.jpg When the straight line graph is converted to an elliptical orbit, the forces all point in the same direction relative to the universe. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc8.jpg This diagram was generated using the true anisotropy which is added to the Newtonian gravity rate. It's totally unsustainable and has nothing whatever to do with the gravity anisotropy. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc4.jpg *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc7.jpg This is the only thing of consequence resulting from the anisotropy. The Sun and Mercury oscillate back and forth as though they are connected by some invisible spring. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit2.gif The eccentricity in that system is around .00048 that of the natural orbit system. Since both systems function in exactly the same way, they will proportionally play the same role in determining the rate of perihelion advance, if there is a role to play. The only apparent in-elasticity in each system is through variations in the time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury. At the perihelion of Mercury's orbit, the delay in its relationship with the Sun is (perihelion radius divided by the speed of light) = 153 seconds. By the time it has reached its aphelion the delay has become 233 seconds. It has lost an additional 80 seconds in its relationship with the Sun. The time delay has some consequence. It will cause Mercury's natural trajectory to point further away from the Sun enroute to the aphelion because centrifugal force is unaffected by gravity, while centripetal force has been reduced over the increasing delay time as Mercury moves further away from the Sun. Mercury would be traveling faster toward the aphelion than normally expected. Enroute to the perihelion, the relationship between the Sun and Mercury has gained an additional 80 seconds. Radial velocity will again increase asymmetrically compared with a naturally flowing orbit. Any deviation from the natural flow of a stable elliptical orbit will have gyroscopic consequences that will manifest themselves at 90 degrees to the change direction. The initial asymmetric force direction is not where the force has been counteracted. That is always advanced by 90 degrees. On average, the asymmetric force is geared toward directly advancing Mercury's orbit ellipse. If the average radial velocity is around 5000 m/sec (it's more), multiplying that by 80 * 2 seconds for the complete orbit gives a 800000 meter advance for each orbit cycle, which is far too much. But the story doesn't end there. The time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury is measured in the realm of light-time-gravity, where all linear measurements involve the dual planes of dimension perpendicular to the line along which the measurement is taken. But such a line doesn't exist in that realm because every measurement involves all dimensions. The hypotenuse length of the imaginary right angle triangle scribed in space by a light ray emerging perpendicular to the line of motion, from a source which is moving relative to the local frame, is determined with the Pythagoras equation *a^2 + b^2 = c^2. Measurements from the realm of matter are squared and thus elevated to the realm of light-time-gravity so that they can be properly added (in this case). The square root of the result returns it to the realm of matter. The 80 second time shortfall difference between the aphelion and perihelion radii was determined assuming that time measurements can be determined as they are in the realm of matter, which is wrong. Converting the time measurements to the realm of matter by taking the square root of the aphelion radius and dividing it by the speed of light and subtracting from it, the square root of the perihelion radius divided by the speed of light, results in a time shortfall equivalent in the realm of matter of 2.98 seconds. With the average radial velocity set at 5000 m/sec; *5000 * 2.98 * 2 = 29800 meters is the advance per orbit cycle, which is 44 arcseconds per century. The gravity anisotropy adds around .02 arcseconds to that result. Directly comparing anything to do with light, time or gravity within the realm of matter cannot give a proper result unless the square root of each component is taken prior to the comparison. I set up a program based on the above which indexed around the orbit in 1 degree increments. The final advance for the complete orbit was 28787 meters per orbit, which is 42.46 arcseconds per century (42.48 including a gravity anisotropy). ---------- Mercury's perihelion advance within the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system indicates that the system is not entirely elastic. If the varying time delay is the cause, it will also account for the lack of elasticity in each closed gravitating system formed between the Sun and every individual component of matter in the universe. The average elasticity in all Sun-universe systems is .36%, as is demonstrated at *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/darkmatr.html ----- Max Keon I believe it is a "fall short" rather than an advance. Mitch Raemsch |
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On Oct 28, 3:48*pm, BURT wrote:
On Oct 26, 4:07*pm, wrote: *The post is duplicated at this address. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/sun-merc.html *-------- *Perihelion Advance Of Mercury. In the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system, from the viewpoint of the Sun, Mercury is oscillating back and forth, and from the viewpoint of Mercury it's the Sun that's oscillating back and forth. Beyond that, there is nothing else of any consequence within that system. Mercury's orbit trajectory is determined entirely from within that closed system. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit1.gif The Sun is 5555556 times the mass of Mercury, and Mercury's orbit eccentricity from aphelion to perihelion is 2.4E+10 meters, so the Sun will oscillate over only 4320 meters. When a change in the force of gravity is rapidly introduced into the system, i.e. during the fall or rise between the aphelion and perihelion, the change is necessarily directly added to or subtracted from the normal Newtonian gravity rate and the consequence will be as per diagrams. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc2.jpg But that has nothing to do with the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's motion to and from the Sun, _which has slowly evolved to its current state over millions of years._ In the next diagram, the oscillatory motion of an object moving along the trajectory of the yellow line has been well established, and the straight line represents the plane where all forces will be zero. In order to halt the downward motion at point 1 and send it back to intersect with the line at point 2, a constant force is applied for the duration of the journey between points 1 and 2. The same applies for the journey between points 2 and 3, but the force direction is reversed. There's no other way the system could function. And it's permanently sustainable so long as the forces remain. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc6.jpg The force directions are exactly the same as those for the gravity anisotropy generated by Mercury's radial velocity relative to the Sun. In that case they act at 90 degrees to the line between the aphelion and perihelion. It's also exactly the same system as that for Mercury's natural elliptical orbit, where the forces are applied along the line through the aphelion and perihelion (not shown). *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc5.jpg When the straight line graph is converted to an elliptical orbit, the forces all point in the same direction relative to the universe. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc8.jpg This diagram was generated using the true anisotropy which is added to the Newtonian gravity rate. It's totally unsustainable and has nothing whatever to do with the gravity anisotropy. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc4.jpg *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/merc7.jpg This is the only thing of consequence resulting from the anisotropy. The Sun and Mercury oscillate back and forth as though they are connected by some invisible spring. *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/orbit2.gif The eccentricity in that system is around .00048 that of the natural orbit system. Since both systems function in exactly the same way, they will proportionally play the same role in determining the rate of perihelion advance, if there is a role to play. The only apparent in-elasticity in each system is through variations in the time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury. At the perihelion of Mercury's orbit, the delay in its relationship with the Sun is (perihelion radius divided by the speed of light) = 153 seconds. By the time it has reached its aphelion the delay has become 233 seconds. It has lost an additional 80 seconds in its relationship with the Sun. The time delay has some consequence. It will cause Mercury's natural trajectory to point further away from the Sun enroute to the aphelion because centrifugal force is unaffected by gravity, while centripetal force has been reduced over the increasing delay time as Mercury moves further away from the Sun. Mercury would be traveling faster toward the aphelion than normally expected. Enroute to the perihelion, the relationship between the Sun and Mercury has gained an additional 80 seconds. Radial velocity will again increase asymmetrically compared with a naturally flowing orbit. Any deviation from the natural flow of a stable elliptical orbit will have gyroscopic consequences that will manifest themselves at 90 degrees to the change direction. The initial asymmetric force direction is not where the force has been counteracted. That is always advanced by 90 degrees. On average, the asymmetric force is geared toward directly advancing Mercury's orbit ellipse. If the average radial velocity is around 5000 m/sec (it's more), multiplying that by 80 * 2 seconds for the complete orbit gives a 800000 meter advance for each orbit cycle, which is far too much. But the story doesn't end there. The time delay in the gravity link between the Sun and Mercury is measured in the realm of light-time-gravity, where all linear measurements involve the dual planes of dimension perpendicular to the line along which the measurement is taken. But such a line doesn't exist in that realm because every measurement involves all dimensions. The hypotenuse length of the imaginary right angle triangle scribed in space by a light ray emerging perpendicular to the line of motion, from a source which is moving relative to the local frame, is determined with the Pythagoras equation *a^2 + b^2 = c^2. Measurements from the realm of matter are squared and thus elevated to the realm of light-time-gravity so that they can be properly added (in this case). The square root of the result returns it to the realm of matter. The 80 second time shortfall difference between the aphelion and perihelion radii was determined assuming that time measurements can be determined as they are in the realm of matter, which is wrong. Converting the time measurements to the realm of matter by taking the square root of the aphelion radius and dividing it by the speed of light and subtracting from it, the square root of the perihelion radius divided by the speed of light, results in a time shortfall equivalent in the realm of matter of 2.98 seconds. With the average radial velocity set at 5000 m/sec; *5000 * 2.98 * 2 = 29800 meters is the advance per orbit cycle, which is 44 arcseconds per century. The gravity anisotropy adds around .02 arcseconds to that result. Directly comparing anything to do with light, time or gravity within the realm of matter cannot give a proper result unless the square root of each component is taken prior to the comparison. I set up a program based on the above which indexed around the orbit in 1 degree increments. The final advance for the complete orbit was 28787 meters per orbit, which is 42.46 arcseconds per century (42.48 including a gravity anisotropy). ---------- Mercury's perihelion advance within the Sun-Mercury closed gravitating system indicates that the system is not entirely elastic. If the varying time delay is the cause, it will also account for the lack of elasticity in each closed gravitating system formed between the Sun and every individual component of matter in the universe. The average elasticity in all Sun-universe systems is .36%, as is demonstrated at *http://members.optusnet.com.au/maxkeon/darkmatr.html ----- Max Keon I believe it is a "fall short" rather than an advance. Mitch Raemsch After allowing for the secular perturbations due to ALL the planets, the perihelion of mercury shows an advance (moving forwards) of 42.8 arc-seconds per century. Newtonian gravitation cannot account for this. It is OBSERVED to be an advance, so your "belief" that it is a "fall short" is contradicted by empirical observation. Get real. Tom Davidson Richmond, VA |
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