Idea to melt through ice layer on Europa

Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches to
melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice layer.

"Kelly Goode" wrote in
news:jZ2Rb.23390$U%5.171639@attbi_s03:

Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these
approaches to melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to
melt through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice
layer.

Rather than bombs, it would make more sense to have some kind of a
controlled thermal burn, and I suppose there's a chance that it might not
even need to be nuclear. Of course, you'd need to know the thickness of
the ice to calculate how much energy is needed to melt through. Maybe a
radar sounder can tell us that.

As a sequel to the idea to send an ultralight plane to Mars, I'm floating
the idea to send a miniature submarine to Europa.

"Kelly Goode" wrote in message
news:jZ2Rb.23390$U%5.171639@attbi_s03...
Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches
to
melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice
layer.

Um, I dont think letting off a series of hydrogen bombs is the way to go.
Remember, we would be looking for life beneath Europa's icelayer. If
hydrogen bombs could break through the ice layer we would end up
killing a huge amount of aquatic life in doing so.

Also, from what I have heard that ice layer could be a kilometers thick.
No hydrogen bomb that I know of will break that up.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:11:12 +0000 (UTC), "Dolores Claman"
wrote:

Um, I dont think letting off a series of hydrogen bombs is the way to go.

Not when you could upset to locals on Europa, not to forget the huge
protest here on Earth.

Remember, we would be looking for life beneath Europa's icelayer. If
hydrogen bombs could break through the ice layer we would end up
killing a huge amount of aquatic life in doing so.

Well, it is not such a bad idea if they all floated to the surface for
easy examination. ;-]

Also, from what I have heard that ice layer could be a kilometers thick.

Yes, there are some theories that it could be very thick. Also there
may not be water and only some icy slush.

No hydrogen bomb that I know of will break that up.

Just a slow concentrated burn would do.

The best option I think is to use some nuclear power or decay to
create lots of natural heat. And this heat you direct to the outer
shell of your lander making it hot, where the nose of your lander
should be the hottest.

Any ice that touches this lander would quickly melt, where the gravity
on Europa would help pull this lander nose first through the ice.

I am not sure how long it would take to break your way through to
either the water, or through a lower layer of ice slush, in order to
get to the water, but you could achieve a good slow and steady
progress.

Naturally, hitting a rock could ruin your whole mission, but there
should be little chance of that. And it is best to start at a fresh
thin fracture on the surface.

Anyway, once you are through, then you can cut the heat and use your
science instruments to take photos of European fish on the way down.

Communication to the above orbiter should not be too bad, but the
pressure of all that water and ice would be unhealthy.

Before they even try doing a mission through the ice, then they will
put a lander on top of one of those fresh fractures, when what was
below the ice would have been cast up here.

If there were any real fish like creatures on Europa, then they should
not be dumb enough to get caught up in such a thing, but any plankton
like life could well be.

So it would be an interesting place to look first.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

"Cardman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:11:12 +0000 (UTC), "Dolores Claman"
wrote:

Um, I dont think letting off a series of hydrogen bombs is the way to go.

Not when you could upset to locals on Europa, not to forget the huge
protest here on Earth.

Well screw the earth protesters; they never shut up anyway, and their
contribution to world progress is practically nil. But you're right,
they'll all come out and protest especially if their favourite bogey man,
Bush is still in office.


Remember, we would be looking for life beneath Europa's icelayer. If
hydrogen bombs could break through the ice layer we would end up
killing a huge amount of aquatic life in doing so.

Well, it is not such a bad idea if they all floated to the surface for
easy examination. ;-]

You're awful :-)


Also, from what I have heard that ice layer could be a kilometers thick.

Yes, there are some theories that it could be very thick. Also there
may not be water and only some icy slush.

Agreed.


No hydrogen bomb that I know of will break that up.

Just a slow concentrated burn would do.

The best option I think is to use some nuclear power or decay to
create lots of natural heat. And this heat you direct to the outer
shell of your lander making it hot, where the nose of your lander
should be the hottest.

Any ice that touches this lander would quickly melt, where the gravity
on Europa would help pull this lander nose first through the ice.

Sounds like that could take a while but I agree with the idea
that we would probably need to use NEP or such source
for power.

Communication to the above orbiter should not be too bad, but the
pressure of all that water and ice would be unhealthy.

Ya, also tidal flows in that apparent ocean probably get pretty
hairy at times.


Before they even try doing a mission through the ice, then they will
put a lander on top of one of those fresh fractures, when what was
below the ice would have been cast up here.

I dont know how good the newest radar technology is, but I
wonder whether one might be able to detect large moving objects
through the ice layer.? Maybe this could even be done by an orbiter.


If there were any real fish like creatures on Europa, then they should
not be dumb enough to get caught up in such a thing, but any plankton
like life could well be.

Fossils may be around those cracked surface areas. Good idea.

Kelly Goode wrote:

Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches
to melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice
layer.

That would be cool, but a bit crude and politically unacceptable. I think a
better solution would be a nuclear powered submarine that melts its way
through the ice. You could leave a heavily armored cable behind to transmit
information to the surface, where you would have a transmitter to send the
data back to earth. The total required mass would be large by todays
standards, but the technology for JIMO could be reused for this.

I would be in favor of detonating some hydrogen bombs in the vicinity of
various comets and asteroids to test how you much can deflect them, but
that would require breaking or withdrawing from some treaties against nukes
in space.

Kelly Goode wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches to
melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

This would be an extremely dumb way to do it though.


Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice layer.


slightly less dumb, but doesn't help much. the water would quickly freeze.
also, you are talking about a seriously large object.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Putting more thought in to it, I guess it wouldn't be the smartest way to
get through the ice. I like the other ideas suggested. What a gracious way
to explore another planet... Blow it to hell with bombs... :-/ I guess
there would be a lot more efficient ways to use heat to melt the ice.
Anyone know any links to sites discussing possible missions to europa? I
hope I get to see one happen in my life time...


"Kelly Goode" wrote in message
news:jZ2Rb.23390$U%5.171639@attbi_s03...
Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches
to
melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice
layer.

"Kelly Goode" wrote in message news:jZ2Rb.23390$U%5.171639@attbi_s03...
Wouldn't it be easier and a lot faster if we took one of these approaches to
melt the ice layer on Europa?

Detonate a large series of large hydrogen bombs in a specific area to melt
through the ice.

Crash a large object into the surface to try to break through the ice layer.

A bit violent.

Zubrin has proposed a radio isotope heated device that would melt its
way through the ice over a period of time. Ice is apparantly permable
to radio waves, allowing communication with the surface.

When the probe breaks through, it will sink to the bottom, losing
radio contact in the process. At the bottom, it can detach ballast and
float back up to the ice, to transmit what it's recorded.

Personally, I think there would be trouble handling the water
pressure, so there would need to be a stop point. Perhaps the probe
would stay just below the ice.

"Can I pet the europan rabbits, George? Ooops, I think they're sleeping,
George...."