Puppet Masters of Phoebos

So you want to go to Mars. And you think our robot
friends will pave the way. But the delay to the folks
back on Earth is a little long to provide interactive
control. We also want an intermediate destination
as a prelude to putting a man on the surface and the
problems associated with getting him back out of that
gravity well.

Perhaps the solution is a small, temporary, manned out-
post on Phoebos. Their main objective: controlling
the robots on the surface that are laying the foundation
for the manned landing.

Any thoughts?

- Cris Fitch
San Diego, CA
http://www.orbit6.com/

"Cris Fitch" wrote in message om...

So you want to go to Mars. And you think our robot
friends will pave the way. But the delay to the folks
back on Earth is a little long to provide interactive
control. We also want an intermediate destination
as a prelude to putting a man on the surface and the
problems associated with getting him back out of that
gravity well.

Perhaps the solution is a small, temporary, manned out-
post on Phoebos. Their main objective: controlling
the robots on the surface that are laying the foundation
for the manned landing.

Any thoughts?


"Phobos."

Let's test this out with Lunar rovers first, remote-controled from
Earth, shall we? It is so insane that we'd send rovers to Mars, los-
ing them by the truckload because of the distance, while the last rov-
er or lander to the Moon happened in the Seventies.

If the President's speech hadn't happened I'd be very cynical about
all this--these screwed-up priorities. As it is, I'm hopeful,
though...



--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

On 22 Jan 2004 09:01:46 -0800, (Cris Fitch)
wrote:

So you want to go to Mars. And you think our robot
friends will pave the way. But the delay to the folks
back on Earth is a little long to provide interactive
control. We also want an intermediate destination
as a prelude to putting a man on the surface and the
problems associated with getting him back out of that
gravity well.

Perhaps the solution is a small, temporary, manned out-
post on Phoebos. Their main objective: controlling
the robots on the surface that are laying the foundation
for the manned landing.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea, but if they can build a base on Phobos, then
they can also build a base in orbit. So the question is... What does
Phobos have that we need?

Also such a base can certainly provide huge gains in the study of Mars
and may also play a role in any following manned mission to the
surface.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

"Cardman" wrote in message
...
On 22 Jan 2004 09:01:46 -0800, (Cris Fitch)
wrote:

So you want to go to Mars. And you think our robot
friends will pave the way. But the delay to the folks
back on Earth is a little long to provide interactive
control. We also want an intermediate destination
as a prelude to putting a man on the surface and the
problems associated with getting him back out of that
gravity well.

Perhaps the solution is a small, temporary, manned out-
post on Phoebos. Their main objective: controlling
the robots on the surface that are laying the foundation
for the manned landing.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea, but if they can build a base on Phobos, then
they can also build a base in orbit. So the question is... What does
Phobos have that we need?

Radiation Shielding which makes an inflatable habitat more viable. Has any
work been done on hibernation for space flights? There is full hibernation
and there is bear type hibernation. Bears pretty much sleep through the
winter. Humans should be able to do the same thing. This would simplify
radiation shielding, because you could cram all the astronauts into a tiny
area during the flight. If they got up twice a week to go to the bathroom,
that would be OK.

In article ,
Mike Rhino wrote:
...Has any
work been done on hibernation for space flights? There is full hibernation
and there is bear type hibernation. Bears pretty much sleep through the
winter. Humans should be able to do the same thing...

The problem is that we have not the slightest idea whether humans are
capable of hibernation, and if so, how to make it happen.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:32:35 GMT, (Henry Spencer)
wrote:

The problem is that we have not the slightest idea whether humans are
capable of hibernation,

I would consider it unlikely, even if some people suffer from a kind
of loss of energy in the cold months.

Come spend winter in my bed is not a bad idea though. ;-]

Hibernation no doubt developed due to lack of food in the cold months,
when sleeping to save energy sure beats starving to death. Us humans
did not need this feature due to our intelligence being able to find
food.

and if so, how to make it happen.

Dig a hole into the side of a hill, crawl in, fill in the entrance
leaving a small air hole, then have a really long sleep. And don't
forget to hide some food around for when you wake up.

In 8 to 10 hours...

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Rhino wrote:
...Has any
work been done on hibernation for space flights? There is full
hibernation
and there is bear type hibernation. Bears pretty much sleep through the
winter. Humans should be able to do the same thing...

The problem is that we have not the slightest idea whether humans are
capable of hibernation, and if so, how to make it happen.

Not full hibernation. The combination of sleeping pills and controlled
hypothermia should be pretty close. If somebody sleeps 18 hours a day,
that's a compromise. We haven't tested the health effects of this.

(Henry Spencer) writes:

The problem is that we have not the slightest idea whether humans are
capable of hibernation, and if so, how to make it happen.

I just watched a documentary in which they noted that humans' muscles
rapidly atrophy (sp?) with that sort of "bed rest", while bears'
muscles hardly do at all.

But I have heard that humans can learn (maybe only from birth) to
tolerate cold much better than most humans tolerate it. For example,
one of those captured "dog boys" ran around naked in French winters
apparently quite comfortably.

Mike Rhino wrote:
snip

Radiation Shielding which makes an inflatable habitat more viable. Has any
work been done on hibernation for space flights? There is full hibernation
and there is bear type hibernation. Bears pretty much sleep through the
winter. Humans should be able to do the same thing. This would simplify
radiation shielding, because you could cram all the astronauts into a tiny
area during the flight. If they got up twice a week to go to the bathroom,
that would be OK.


Drug induced coma. But will the machines be able to wake them
and in what condition? Sick, weak, with pulmonary edema. How do you
handle infections while in transit? Robot docs? I'm only thinking of
terrestrial examples of deep sleep/coma management. Maybe liquid
breathing for the long term, but what if the machines break?

Totally OT: Want to bet that spirit was hosed by bad code downloaded
to run the grinder and the spectrograph? I have read that code was
still being developed during the slow crawl to mars.

Background:
I have developed BSP's and drivers for VxWorks for the last three years.
VxWorks is not a secure environment, It's a realtime, high speed,
low overhead process scheduler and device manager.
It's not a chain link fence to contain bad programming.
It can be a trusted O/S, But NASA will treat it like Daddy's sports
car, I see the keys in the hands of your teenage son. Everyone will
be trusted, Stupidly so. It will end up in the ditch or wrapped around
a power pole.


Uninformed: The statement that the system was tested enough.
The are no limits to testing, Ever. Esp Software, ever...
Have you ever built code to DO-178b Level A or B ? Would you want
to fly in an aircraft those avionics were upgraded to the
latest build of the system "in flight" ???

Jim Davis.
Yes, I'm dumber than a box of rocks, But I KNOW IT. That's the
difference.

(Cris Fitch) wrote in message . com...
So you want to go to Mars. And you think our robot
friends will pave the way. But the delay to the folks
back on Earth is a little long to provide interactive
control. We also want an intermediate destination
as a prelude to putting a man on the surface and the
problems associated with getting him back out of that
gravity well.

Perhaps the solution is a small, temporary, manned out-
post on Phoebos. Their main objective: controlling
the robots on the surface that are laying the foundation
for the manned landing.

Any thoughts?

- Cris Fitch
San Diego, CA
http://www.orbit6.com/



Its been thought of.

http://www.marsinstitute.info/rd/fac.../rtr/pf19.html