KSC/CCAFS Dividing Line and KSC Future ?

OK, just a quick question about where CCAFS ends and KSC starts [or vice-
versa if you prefer :] I tried searching google, came up with plenty of
references talking about the history, and the naming between the two,
but none as to where one ends and the other begins.

Where is the actual division ? I presume there is a fence somewhere, since
CCAFS and KSC have different entry requirements ? Is it just LC-39 that
is at KSC, with all the other pads at CCAFS ? What about LC-37 and LC-34 ?

I'm starting to wonder what the consequences to KSC might be with shuttle
being retired by 2010. Will it even see a CEV launch, if that ends up
launching on an EELV ?


Iain.

In article ,
Iain Young wrote:
Where is the actual division ? I presume there is a fence somewhere, since
CCAFS and KSC have different entry requirements ? Is it just LC-39 that
is at KSC, with all the other pads at CCAFS ?

Correct, although there have been some small adjustments of the boundaries
over the years -- if memory serves, LC-40 and -41 are on land that was
originally KSC turf.

What about LC-37 and LC-34 ?

Those are CCAFS sites, already under construction when the KSC site was
chosen.

I'm starting to wonder what the consequences to KSC might be with shuttle
being retired by 2010. Will it even see a CEV launch, if that ends up
launching on an EELV ?

A very interesting question. There's a reasonable chance KSC will be
involved in things like ground support for the CEV itself, but barring the
(politically and financially) unlikely possibility of NASA developing a
bigger booster for deep-space work, it looks like KSC is going out of the
launch business.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

Iain Young wrote in message ...
OK, just a quick question about where CCAFS ends and KSC starts [or vice-
versa if you prefer :] I tried searching google, came up with plenty of
references talking about the history, and the naming between the two,
but none as to where one ends and the other begins.

Where is the actual division ? I presume there is a fence somewhere, since
CCAFS and KSC have different entry requirements ? Is it just LC-39 that
is at KSC, with all the other pads at CCAFS ? What about LC-37 and LC-34 ?


Kennedy Space Center currently consists of Launch Complex 39 (two
pads, the VAB, the shuttle processing buildings, the landing strip,
etc) and what used to be called (and might still be) the Merritt
Island Launch Area (MILA), which consists of LC 39 and the Cape
Industrial Area to the south on Merritt Island proper. The
Industrial Area includes the HQ Bldg, the Operations & Control
Bldg where they used to process Spacelab, the Space Station
processing bldg, SAEF 2 where they fuel some satellites for launch
at the Cape, the Vertical Processing Building (VPF) where they
used to do integration testing on shuttle satellite payloads, etc.

KSC and the Cape have their own security perimeters. I'm pretty
sure you have to pass through Air Force security when entering
the Cape even if you've already been cleared through KSC
security.

Cape Canaveral Air Force Station (CCAFS) is on Cape Canaveral
proper - the triangular barrier island east of Merritt Island
that abuts the Atlantic Ocean. The Cape pads are now called
"Space Launch Complexes (SLC)" in Air Force vernacular. SLC 41
is the northern-most CCAFS pad. The Cape also encompases
active pads at SLC 40, 37, 36, and 17. The Florida Spaceport
Authority operates SLC 20 and SLC 46 on the Cape, but these
have seen little use to date.

During the 1970s, pad 41 was under KSC control for a few
years when Titan 3E was used to launch Helios, Viking, and
Voyager missions. It has since reverted to CCAFS and has
been rebuilt for use by Atlas V.

I'm starting to wonder what the consequences to KSC might be with shuttle
being retired by 2010. Will it even see a CEV launch, if that ends up
launching on an EELV ?


There only thing I can imagine keeping LC 39 active would be
the development of a big new launch vehicle for NASA's
deep space programs. A shuttle-derivative, which would be
able to approach Saturn V LEO capability with moderate
development cost, is one possibility. Otherwise, NASA is
going to have a big museum on its hands. The Industrial
Area would probably remain active to support checkout of
launch hardware - assuming the hardware is launched from
Florida ...

- Ed Kyle

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Young wrote:
Where is the actual division ? I presume there is a fence somewhere,
since
CCAFS and KSC have different entry requirements ? Is it just LC-39 that
is at KSC, with all the other pads at CCAFS ?

Correct, although there have been some small adjustments of the boundaries
over the years -- if memory serves, LC-40 and -41 are on land that was
originally KSC turf.

Yeah, there's a sign between SLC-40 and -41 welcoming people to KSC.

I'm starting to wonder what the consequences to KSC might be with shuttle
being retired by 2010. Will it even see a CEV launch, if that ends up
launching on an EELV ?

A very interesting question. There's a reasonable chance KSC will be
involved in things like ground support for the CEV itself, but barring the
(politically and financially) unlikely possibility of NASA developing a
bigger booster for deep-space work, it looks like KSC is going out of the
launch business.

KSC will certainly be the operational center for CEV, with spacecraft
processing taking place at KSC facilities, and launch operations taking
place at CCAFS.

I won't be a bit surprised to see some factions at KSC lobbying hard for
launch operations to utilize the LC-39 infrastructure (in fact, I raised
that concern to my team leader three days ago). They're not going to want to
see the VAB and pads sitting unused and deteriorating with no program funds
to support them. Hopefully, the studies we did this past summer will not be
forgotten. They revealed just how difficult - and expensive - it would be
to do EELV operations at LC-39.

However, I do consider it likely that an effort will be made to lobby for
development of Shuttle-C or something similar, allowing the LC-39
infrastructure to be maintained.

-Kim-

"ed kyle" wrote in message
om...
Kennedy Space Center currently consists of Launch Complex 39 (two
pads, the VAB, the shuttle processing buildings, the landing strip,
etc) and what used to be called (and might still be) the Merritt
Island Launch Area (MILA), which consists of LC 39 and the Cape
Industrial Area to the south on Merritt Island proper. The
Industrial Area includes the HQ Bldg, the Operations & Control
Bldg where they used to process Spacelab, the Space Station
processing bldg, SAEF 2 where they fuel some satellites for launch
at the Cape, the Vertical Processing Building (VPF) where they
used to do integration testing on shuttle satellite payloads, etc.

KSC and the Cape have their own security perimeters. I'm pretty
sure you have to pass through Air Force security when entering
the Cape even if you've already been cleared through KSC
security.

No, they're protected by a common security perimeter and contractor security
force. Even when they each provided their own security force there was
unimpeded movement between the two facilities.

There only thing I can imagine keeping LC 39 active would be
the development of a big new launch vehicle for NASA's
deep space programs. A shuttle-derivative, which would be
able to approach Saturn V LEO capability with moderate
development cost, is one possibility. Otherwise, NASA is
going to have a big museum on its hands. The Industrial
Area would probably remain active to support checkout of
launch hardware - assuming the hardware is launched from
Florida ...

Yup, I agree completely, with the caveat that *launch* hardware (i.e. the
rocket) will be processed Cape-side, with the spacecraft being processed
somewhere like the O&C or VPF.

-Kim-

On 17 Jan 2004 13:54:17 -0800, (ed kyle) wrote:

Iain Young wrote in message ...
OK, just a quick question about where CCAFS ends and KSC starts [or vice-
versa if you prefer :] I tried searching google, came up with plenty of
references talking about the history, and the naming between the two,
but none as to where one ends and the other begins.

Where is the actual division ? I presume there is a fence somewhere, since
CCAFS and KSC have different entry requirements ? Is it just LC-39 that
is at KSC, with all the other pads at CCAFS ? What about LC-37 and LC-34 ?


Kennedy Space Center currently consists of Launch Complex 39 (two
pads, the VAB, the shuttle processing buildings, the landing strip,
etc) and what used to be called (and might still be) the Merritt
Island Launch Area (MILA), which consists of LC 39 and the Cape
Industrial Area to the south on Merritt Island proper.

No, the whole shebang is MILA, which apparently was the name of the
entire property prior to the KSC designation and has remained in use
for things like the tracking facilities. MILA is divided into Complex
39 and the Industrial Area.

Brian

"Kim Keller" wrote in message om...
"ed kyle" wrote in message
om...

KSC and the Cape have their own security perimeters. I'm pretty
sure you have to pass through Air Force security when entering
the Cape even if you've already been cleared through KSC
security.

No, they're protected by a common security perimeter and contractor security
force. Even when they each provided their own security force there was
unimpeded movement between the two facilities.


I must have mis-remembered this. I do recall a security gate
just east of the Banana River causeway at the CCAFS entrance.
A NASA-cleared car could drive through during daylight without
stopping, but I thought I recalled having to stop there on
occasion - perhaps during the night or when launches were
pending. There were other security perimeter layers for
certain facilities on the Base such as launch pads, the Titan
facilities, etc. These seemed to vary depending on what was
going on.

There only thing I can imagine keeping LC 39 active would be
the development of a big new launch vehicle for NASA's
deep space programs. A shuttle-derivative, which would be
able to approach Saturn V LEO capability with moderate
development cost, is one possibility. Otherwise, NASA is
going to have a big museum on its hands. The Industrial
Area would probably remain active to support checkout of
launch hardware - assuming the hardware is launched from
Florida ...

Yup, I agree completely, with the caveat that *launch* hardware (i.e. the
rocket) will be processed Cape-side, with the spacecraft being processed
somewhere like the O&C or VPF.


Right, just like the Saturn IB missions that had Apollo and
LM spacecraft hardware checked out at the O&C (or whatever
it was called then), before being rolled across to be mated
with the launch vehicles at Complex 34 or 37. Some spacecraft
testing was also done at KSC MILA during Project Gemini.

- Ed Kyle

"ed kyle" wrote in message
om...
I must have mis-remembered this. I do recall a security gate
just east of the Banana River causeway at the CCAFS entrance.
A NASA-cleared car could drive through during daylight without
stopping, but I thought I recalled having to stop there on
occasion - perhaps during the night or when launches were
pending. There were other security perimeter layers for
certain facilities on the Base such as launch pads, the Titan
facilities, etc. These seemed to vary depending on what was
going on.

In my experience (1989-present), only hazardous operations (like launches,
wet dress rehearsals or fueling Titans) have resulted in security
checkpoints being established, and then only at the safety boundary. I think
there is a security gate at the Banana River CCAFS entrance, but I've never
seen it operated. There's another one at the boundary of CCAFS and KSC
between SLC-40 and -41 (or did they tear that one down recently? I think
they may have...).

Right, just like the Saturn IB missions that had Apollo and
LM spacecraft hardware checked out at the O&C (or whatever
it was called then), before being rolled across to be mated
with the launch vehicles at Complex 34 or 37. Some spacecraft
testing was also done at KSC MILA during Project Gemini.

Yeah, I've seen photos of Geminis mounted on an RF test pylon at the old
radar range over by the HMF.

-Kim-

"Kim Keller" wrote in message om...

KSC will certainly be the operational center for CEV, with spacecraft
processing taking place at KSC facilities, and launch operations taking
place at CCAFS.


The OSP (now morphing to CEV) effort seemed to have been
centered on ISS support missions up to now. Were
human-lunar mission requirements studied for this vehicle?
If so, were the requirements met with EELV launches alone?

I expect to see a push for a bigger than EELV-heavy
booster for post-ISS missions.

- Ed Kyle

Brian Thorn wrote in message . ..

No, the whole shebang is MILA, which apparently was the name of the
entire property prior to the KSC designation and has remained in use
for things like the tracking facilities. MILA is divided into Complex
39 and the Industrial Area.


Right. We all remember hearing or reading the following
words last Feb 1.

"MILA's not reporting any RF at this time."

- Ed Kyle