New MRO shots of Spirit landing area

http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........Doc

Umm err......make that Oppurtunity............Doc

On Nov 29, 12:51 pm, wrote:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........Doc

wrote:

http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........Doc




Considering how few craters are on that image, rolling into Eagle Crater
was an amazing piece of luck.
Instead of having to deal with "The Great Galactic Ghoul", these
missions have shown extraordinary good luck end-to-end.

Pat

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:34:35 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote
(in article ):



wrote:

http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........Doc




Considering how few craters are on that image, rolling into Eagle Crater
was an amazing piece of luck.
Instead of having to deal with "The Great Galactic Ghoul", these
missions have shown extraordinary good luck end-to-end.

Pat

Isn't "Eagle Crater" simply the impact point of the airbags, which then
deflated around the lander?

--
Herb Schaltegger
"You can run on for a long time . . . sooner or later, God'll cut you
down." - Johnny Cash
http://www.angryherb.net

Whats really neat is that the site states they will be soon imaging
other "hardware" landing spots, including Viking Pathfinder, MPL. Of
course I'll throw a vote in for the Soviet landing sights as well (how
would one find out where they landed?),,,,,,this is going to be very
interesting...................Doc
On Nov 29, 1:34 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........DocConsidering how few craters are on that image, rolling into Eagle Crater
was an amazing piece of luck.
Instead of having to deal with "The Great Galactic Ghoul", these
missions have shown extraordinary good luck end-to-end.

Pat

wrote:

Whats really neat is that the site states they will be soon imaging
other "hardware" landing spots, including Viking Pathfinder, MPL. Of
course I'll throw a vote in for the Soviet landing sights as well (how
would one find out where they landed?),,,,,,this is going to be very
interesting...................Doc



The problem with the Soviet launders is that they were basically spheres
that deployed four petals, so it might be hard to tell them from rocks.
The heatshield might show up, but it's going to take a lot of photo
analysis and luck to spot one.
The other problem is that they were designed to self-destruct after
they'd landed and taken their photos by use of a thermite charge to
avoid contaminating the Martian environment, so what may be down there
now are piles of fuzed slag, not spacecraft.

Pat

Yes it is, however it is being imaged in a way never before seen by
humans. I beleive in fact that this is a first in space exploration,
insofar as human robot surface activityis being monitered from orbit in
"real time". As I recall there were some Apollo pics (16?) where you
can see the LM and surface disturbance from the crew walking around,
but nothing approaching this level of detail. I would imagine that in
the case of other landed spacecraft much can be gleaned in terms of
landing site calibration and perhaps other loose ends. Eagle crater
for a hole in one landing site was fortunate for its revealing some
basic Martian subsurface structure.....................Doc
On Nov 29, 2:03 pm, Herb Schaltegger
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:34:35 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote
(in article ):







wrote:

http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...P_001414_1780/ Very good
stuff, lander sitting in crater, chute (can almost tell its fabric) and
backshell and heatshield and impact point...........Doc

Considering how few craters are on that image, rolling into Eagle Crater
was an amazing piece of luck.
Instead of having to deal with "The Great Galactic Ghoul", these
missions have shown extraordinary good luck end-to-end.

PatIsn't "Eagle Crater" simply the impact point of the airbags, which then
deflated around the lander?

--
Herb Schaltegger
"You can run on for a long time . . . sooner or later, God'll cut you
down." - Johnny Cash
http://www.angryherb.net- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I've never heard that about the thermite Pat, do you have any handy
source on that? That's kind of a typical wild Soviet technology for a
mission of this type when you think about it! I would agree that it
would be a small target even with petals extended, but there also
remains two other issues. Dust and location. Martian dust is
ubiquitous as you know but would it cover a spacecraft in all this
time? (what has it been 20 years?) It would be and additonal facet in
our understanding of martian surface dynamics and dust movement it we
could find, for instance, partially covered. But alas, where are the
Soviet spheres? Was technology back then sophisticated enough to plot
actual location? Finally I think there were three Soviet landers that
impacted the planet, is that accurate?............................Doce


On Nov 29, 2:45 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
Whats really neat is that the site states they will be soon imaging
other "hardware" landing spots, including Viking Pathfinder, MPL. Of
course I'll throw a vote in for the Soviet landing sights as well (how
would one find out where they landed?),,,,,,this is going to be very
interesting...................DocThe problem with the Soviet launders is that they were basically spheres
that deployed four petals, so it might be hard to tell them from rocks.
The heatshield might show up, but it's going to take a lot of photo
analysis and luck to spot one.
The other problem is that they were designed to self-destruct after
they'd landed and taken their photos by use of a thermite charge to
avoid contaminating the Martian environment, so what may be down there
now are piles of fuzed slag, not spacecraft.

Pat

Herb Schaltegger wrote:


Isn't "Eagle Crater" simply the impact point of the airbags, which then
deflated around the lander?



No, it hit the surface and bounced and rolled into the crater from some
distance away; this really threw the crew at mission control for a
while, as in best golf game tradition it hesitated on the rim of the
crater, then rolled in.
Their telemetry should it rolling, slowing down, then suddenly starting
to roll again.
Once they realized what had happened they were ecstatic, as now they had
a great place to sample... and then of course the worrying about how to
get out of the crater began. If it had hit that big one on the right of
this picture, it might still be inside of it:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/...414_1780_1.jpg
They managed to roll into just about the perfect sized crater; big
enough to be interesting, small enough to get out of.
I wonder if the name "Eagle Crater" is a subtle golf pun.

Pat

wrote:

I've never heard that about the thermite Pat, do you have any handy
source on that?


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...5548-2,00.html
At the time we were very annoyed about this, as we were going to great
lengths to completely sterilize the Viking landers, and didn't think the
thermite option would completely destroy any organisms in the lander
capsule.
Now, the claim is that the landers were sterilized before launch, but
that may just mean their outer surfaces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3

That's kind of a typical wild Soviet technology for a
mission of this type when you think about it! I would agree that it
would be a small target even with petals extended, but there also
remains two other issues. Dust and location. Martian dust is
ubiquitous as you know but would it cover a spacecraft in all this
time? (what has it been 20 years?) It would be and additonal facet in
our understanding of martian surface dynamics and dust movement it we
could find, for instance, partially covered. But alas, where are the
Soviet spheres? Was technology back then sophisticated enough to plot
actual location? Finally I think there were three Soviet landers that
impacted the planet, is that accurate?............................Doce





We know only the approximate landing sites, so tracking down the landers
will be mighty tough.
Mars 2's capsule crashed, Mars 3's capsule gotten eaten up in the giant
dust storm after a 20 second TV transmission, Mars 6's capsule crashed.
Mars 7's capsule missed the planet.
Here's the Great Galactic Ghoul's dinner menu:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/space...tary_mars.html

Pat