Mars Global Surveyor : It's Dead, Jim.

Get over it.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Not heard the latest myself, but I'd not have thought a dodgy panel motor
was too much of a problem. I seem to recall that there were problems with
the arrays at the very start though.

Brian

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Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
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"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message
...
Get over it.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Brian Gaff wrote:

Not heard the latest myself, but I'd not have thought a dodgy panel motor
was too much of a problem. I seem to recall that there were problems with
the arrays at the very start though.

I used to think Mars was a small planet.

It was a great mission, but I do believe it's over. Cigars all around.

Don't we have better things to do, like drive the rovers as fast as
possible away from any glaring evidence of water or putative fossils?

Certainly anyone can see the need for a new large Deep Space Network
now. To the asteroids it doesn't have to be that large, just redundant.

We need a CERES Reconnaissance Orbiter, and we need a generic DAWN class
spacecraft capable of survey missions to multiple large asteroids.

All of this is going to require large bandwidth to the asteroids.

For Mars, we're going to need cheap generic rovers.

Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.

- Ed Kyle

Ed Kyle wrote:

It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.

Good point. Another good example of bad decision making.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Ed Kyle wrote:

It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.



They may have to carry backup fuel cells or batteries for that reason.
Another idea would be to put solar cell arrays on both sides of the disc
rather than just one side, so that it gets some power even it it's in
free drift mode
The idea of leaving your ride home unmanned in Lunar orbit for a month
made me a little queasy from the first time I heard about it.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:

It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.

The idea of leaving your ride home unmanned in Lunar orbit for a month
made me a little queasy from the first time I heard about it.

Send another?

wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:


It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.


The idea of leaving your ride home unmanned in Lunar orbit for a month
made me a little queasy from the first time I heard about it.


Send another?


And the costs of keeping one in a near-ready state during every
mission? And the impact on ISS operations during that time? (Though
admittedly it could be a(n oversized) standby for them as well...)

--

Frank

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"Frank Glover" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:


It would be seriously bad news were something like this to happen to a
solar-powered Orion spacecraft - especially while the crew were on the
lunar surface. If the thing drifts out of solar panel alignment for
just a few hours, it is "lights out" - permanently.


The idea of leaving your ride home unmanned in Lunar orbit for a month
made me a little queasy from the first time I heard about it.


Send another?


And the costs of keeping one in a near-ready state during every
mission? And the impact on ISS operations during that time? (Though
admittedly it could be a(n oversized) standby for them as well...)

I'd hope NASA would have a CEV nearly ready to fly at all times to handle
this sort of contingency at either ISS or for a lunar mission.

But if you don't have the ability send a back-up CEV to get the crew in a
timely fashion (i.e. before their life support runs out), I'd guess you'd
have only one other rational option. The crew would leave the lunar surface
a.s.a.p., dock with the CEV, manually orient the spacecraft/solar panels to
recharge the batteries, and then prepare for an immediate return to earth.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
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Jeff Findley wrote:
I'd hope NASA would have a CEV nearly ready to fly at all times to handle
this sort of contingency at either ISS or for a lunar mission.

Even if it was possible to have a complete second lunar mission ready
to fly on the pad -- which seems extremely unlikely -- how would that
help? If they get back to the CEV in lunar orbit and find it's out of
power, how will they survive the week or more that the backup would
take to get to them?

As far as I can see it would only be a viable option if the CEV failed
early in the lunar landing, couldn't be fixed by the crew flying up and
using the LEM thrusters to reorient it so the solar panels would be
getting enough power, and the replacement could arrive in lunar orbit
before the LEM supplies ran out so they could launch and dock with it
(I presume the new design has batteries etc in the descent stage like
the old LEM so they can't live in the ascent stage for a week). That's
a whole lot of money to spend for what is hopefully a relatively
unlikely scenario.

Mark