Slightly OT but worrying

Anybody here in the USA been selling our Liberty to purchase power lately?
Everybody feel safer here in the USA? I don't know about you all out
there, but I like it when they search an 80 year old woman at the airport.
Sure gives me a sense of wellbeing, a warm feeling that comes with really
being safe on the airplane, safe in the knowledge that your grandmother
isn't going to ...

There are only a few great opportunities like 911 that come along every
once in awhile, where the people of the United States will accept such
transactions that have gone on here lately. Think about it Bin Laden, one
smart guy, hanging out with a group of the most ignorant people in the
World, the Elvis of the War on Terror. Anybody seen Elvis lately?

I'm not sure you Europeans really understand the American psyche. The term
"War on ..." has a very good connotation and meaning here in the USA. We
have used the term for decades now, really somewhat like a rallying cry
for action about this or that. The meaning of War isn't what it used to be
when the Department of War's name was change to the Department of Defense,
a politically correct change many years ago.

"War on", really a never ending term. A term that allows all the great
legislation that's been passed here in the US to become the norm in the
future.

So, when you all go to the ballot box this November and see all those
great choices the media has told you about, Mutt and Jeff, Jeff and Mutt.
Be careful to choose the right Mutt, or was it Jeff. And, go ahead and
ignore anyone else that might appear on the ballot, who you know nothing
about, because you didn't take the time to find out, and the media really
didn't care to tell you about ... he's not the Mutt or Jeff that the media
gives a vast unregulated political contribution to every election cycle,
disguised as the News.

Make your voice heard this November, vote Libertarian!

The preceding Political Ad wasn't paid for by anybody, not even the
Libertarian Party.

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
--

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:09:15 +0000, Craig Fink wrote:

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Craig Fink wrote:
Anybody here in the USA been selling our Liberty to purchase power lately?

Let me think... oh, yeah, any politician or lawyer who has used tragedy
or ignorance to push an anti-gun agenda and perpetuate their own power.

Craig Fink wrote:
Anybody here in the USA been selling our Liberty to purchase power
lately? Everybody feel safer here in the USA? I don't know about you
all out there, but I like it when they search an 80 year old woman at
the airport. Sure gives me a sense of wellbeing, a warm feeling that
comes with really being safe on the airplane, safe in the knowledge
that your grandmother isn't going to ...

I appreciate your concerns, but it's very hard to know for sure who is a
bad guy or is being used a bad guy. Hindsight is too late.

Examples:

In 1986, a 32-year-old Irish woman, pregnant at the time, was about to
board an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv when El Al security agents
discovered an explosive device hidden in the false bottom of her bag.
The woman’s Palestinian boyfriend – the father of her unborn child – had
hidden the bomb.

In 1987, a 70-year-old man and a 25-year-old woman – neither of whom
were Middle Eastern – posed as father and daughter and brought a bomb
aboard Korean Air flight 858 from Baghdad to Thailand. Over the Andaman
Sea, the bomb exploded, killing all on board.

--
Dave Michelson

Craig Fink wrote:


Make your voice heard this November, vote Libertarian!



I can remember when I first heard of the Libertarians, and they even
wanted a friend of mine to run for state office on their ticket.
But in short order I found out that their concept of free markets/small
government was basically aimed at:
1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care, unemployment insurance, and the minimum wage in he name of "free
markets".
2. Removing all pollution laws from corporations in the name of "small
government".
I don't know whether big business invented the Libertarian party, or
just bought it outright early on; but the concept of using political
intellectuals as "useful fools" isn't something completely limited to
Leninism.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:

1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care, unemployment insurance, and the minimum wage in he name of "free
markets".

Good idea.

2. Removing all pollution laws from corporations in the name of "small
government".

Governemnt should be limited to enforcing laws that deal with one
person infringing on the health and property of another. Someone spills
mercury into the drinking water, that's one thing. But a corporation
that emits carbon dioxide, or whatever other effectively harmless
scare-of-the-week chemical, or if the groundwater happens to have some
infinitesimal quantity of arsenic or whatever, is something quite a bit
different.

I don't know whether big business invented the Libertarian party, or
just bought it outright early on; but the concept of using political
intellectuals as "useful fools" isn't something completely limited to
Leninism.

True. Jihadists use them (such as CNN, the NY Times, John Murtha, etc.)
as well.

wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:


1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care, unemployment insurance, and the minimum wage in he name of "free
markets".


Good idea.


Obviously.

1) Workers die shortly before/immediately after retirement since
they are denied health care. Unemployed/old people are eliminated
in the same way. This is already done in those marvelous
societies of the little insects, the ants. They put all
sick/old workers outside the anthill and they die in a
painful agony of 24 hours. This is already done with
the homeless in the human anthill: homeless people die in
average after 10 years outside. We just have to generalize this
and we would have a bigger anthill.

2) Sick workers are expensive. Better kill them, and save the
health costs. Obviously this isn't applied to the higher ups,
that can afford health care. In general all this drastic measures
are only applied to the lower class. The higher ups are not
concerned, like in the anthills.

3) Worker's rights are a nuisance for the corporations. Eliminate
all of them and reintroduce slavery. This is already done in
most parts of China and we can see that it works. Chinese workers
have almost no rights, work for nothing seven days a week, etc.
When we introduce this in the USA, Europe and all the rest of the
world, true competition can start, since all will be poor.


2. Removing all pollution laws from corporations in the name of "small
government".


Governemnt should be limited to enforcing laws that deal with one
person infringing on the health and property of another. Someone spills
mercury into the drinking water, that's one thing. But a corporation
that emits carbon dioxide, or whatever other effectively harmless
scare-of-the-week chemical, or if the groundwater happens to have some
infinitesimal quantity of arsenic or whatever, is something quite a bit
different.


Yes. If someone spills mercury into the drinking water that's bad. But
if a corporation does it, that's OK since only some people die, and
no economical damage happens.

Again, in China this is already done. Pollution kills people by the
millions, poisonous substances are dumped into the rivers because is
cheaper, whole cities rest without drinking water, who cares.

Chinese are cheap.

We have to reintroduce this in USA and Europe. Eliminating all those
stupid pollution laws has the benefical side effect of shortening
worker's lives, so that they die earlier, and do not arrive to less
productive years.

The propositions of the ibertarian party are obviously GREAT. I would
propose that all that benefit from those propositions vote for them.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care,

Which *should not be* the obligation of the employer. You want health
insurance, buy it. It's because it's mandatory that the insurance companies
don't have to be competitive and can charge so much.

unemployment insurance,

Which is the obligation of the union or the individual.

and the minimum wage in he name of "free markets".

The creation of the parental government, an assumption that you are too
stupid to decide for yourself what your labor is worth. If the potential
employer isn't offering what you think you are worth, *go somewhere else*.
Duh! And if no other employer will offer any more, then *you are not worth
more*. If you want more, be worth more.

I've worked both sides of the fence. The employer isn't your mommy or daddy
any more than the government is. Take some responsibility for yourself for a
change.

"jacob navia" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:


1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care, unemployment insurance, and the minimum wage in he name of "free
markets".


Good idea.


Obviously.

1) Workers die shortly before/immediately after retirement since
they are denied health care.

How are they denied health care? Is there some guard at the entrance
blocking them? Why can't they get the best health care they can afford?
That's the same red herring as blaming the HMOs. No HMO has ever forbidden
someone to get a treatment, they have simply refused to pay for certain
treatments. There is nothing stopping the patient from paying for the
treatment on their own. Buy more health insurance instead of beer,
cigarettes or cable TV.

The propositions of the ibertarian party are obviously GREAT.

If you lived in Spain, perhaps.

Scott Hedrick wrote:
"jacob navia" wrote in message
...

wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:



1. Getting rid of pretty much all of worker's rights, including health
care, unemployment insurance, and the minimum wage in he name of "free
markets".


Good idea.


Obviously.

1) Workers die shortly before/immediately after retirement since
they are denied health care.


How are they denied health care?

Because they can't PAY FOR IT dude.

Is there some guard at the entrance
blocking them?

Go to the next clinic, say you are sicj but can't pay
the bill and you will see yourself how it is.


Why can't they get the best health care they can afford?

Because they can't afford any expensive treatment.

That's the same red herring as blaming the HMOs. No HMO has ever forbidden
someone to get a treatment, they have simply refused to pay for certain
treatments. There is nothing stopping the patient from paying for the
treatment on their own. Buy more health insurance instead of beer,
cigarettes or cable TV.


Workers earning the minimum wage (or less) can't afford cable TV...

In article ,
Scott Hedrick wrote:
...There is nothing stopping the patient from paying for the
treatment on their own. Buy more health insurance instead of beer,
cigarettes or cable TV.

And then pray that it will actually cover what goes wrong. I had some
sympathy with that theory -- not a lot, but some -- until my father-in-law
(a US citizen living in the US) died after some months of serious illness.

He was old enough to be eligible for Medicare. He also had *excellent*
private insurance, about the best you could buy off-the-shelf. And the
patient-pays part was *still* staggering -- we were saved from ugly
decisions only by the fact that he was quite well off and his own assets
easily covered it.

Had he been poor... well, some corners could have been cut -- we knew that
money was not an issue, so we had some things done the expensive way for
modest gains in quality or convenience -- but the minimal reasonable care
would still have cost a bundle.

And this was by no means the worst case. He went from old-but-healthy to
dead in about six months -- not long, as serious illness goes. And his
problems were not the sort where expensive treatments looked helpful.

My own political leanings are distinctly small-L libertarian, but I've
become convinced that medical care belongs under the same heading as
police and fire departments: an important emergency service where the
quality of response shouldn't depend on innocent victims' bankrolls.
--
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