Pronunciation of Kuiper belt

Richard Cavell wrote:
How does one pronounce this?

perhaps astronomers can tell us.

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Jeff Root writes:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

On what basis do you make that claim? Many people pronounce it as
"koy-per".

Classic "oar pin" Tholenator(tm) " tholed:

Jeff Root writes:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

On what basis do you make that claim? Many people pronounce it as
"koy-per".

Looks like a new antagonist for you to start digesting, Tholen.

--
COOSN-266-06-39716
Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler
Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy
Official "Usenet psychopath and born-again LLPOF minion",
as designated by Brad Guth

"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen

David Tholen replied to Jeff Root:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

On what basis do you make that claim?

My memory.

Many people pronounce it as "koy-per".

Yes, and that pronounciation is as accurate as the one I
suggested. But not more accurate. The pronounciation in
Dutch is between the two. The sound is not in English and
cannot be represented exactly by English/American phonemes.

Kuiper emmigrated to the US, and my understanding is
that he pronounced his name for the convenience of
American speakers as a rhyme with "piper".

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

"CeeBee" replied to Jeff Root:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

No, it doesn't. The Dutch ui-sound is not available in
English, which makes it impossible to pinpoint it.

Here's a short clip of a woman saying "de tuin" (the garden)
which has the same ui-pronunciation of "kuiper":
http://www.taalthuis.com/course/sounds/wav/ui1.wav

That sound is indistinguishable from "tun" or "ton" (unit
of mass), which is also close but not quite right. The
problem there may be merely the quality of the recording.

Here is a Dutch speaker pronouncing five Dutch names,
including Kuiper:

http://homepage.mac.com/schuffelen/Dutch/Brouwer.MP3

That recording isn't much better. It almost sounds like
he is saying "karper". But I'm told it is authentic.

What's more important that any language pronounces it
as decided by the people using it, and in the end we all
know what we're talking about.

My suggestion was as good as you can get, and is adequate
for the task.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

wrote:

Jeff Root writes:


"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".


On what basis do you make that claim? Many people pronounce it as
"koy-per".


I used to say cooper until I looked it up, because I had never heard it.

What many say doesn't become standard until many becomes a very high
proportion of speakers.

--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia

CeeBee wrote:

"Jeff Root" wrote in sci.astro:


"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".



No, it doesn't. The Dutch ui-sound is not available in English, which makes
it impossible to pinpoint it.

Here's a short clip of a woman saying "de tuin" (the garden) which has the
same ui-pronunciation of "kuiper":
http://www.taalthuis.com/course/sounds/wav/ui1.wav

What's more important that any language pronounces it as decided by the
people using it, and in the end we all know what we're talking about.



No, we're talking about the English pronunciation, not the Dutch.


--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia

Jeff Root writes:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

On what basis do you make that claim?

My memory.

Memory of what?

Many people pronounce it as "koy-per".

Yes, and that pronounciation is as accurate as the one I
suggested. But not more accurate.

On what basis do you make that claim?

The pronounciation in
Dutch is between the two. The sound is not in English and
cannot be represented exactly by English/American phonemes.

As CeeBee pointed out to you.

Kuiper emmigrated to the US, and my understanding is
that he pronounced his name for the convenience of
American speakers as a rhyme with "piper".

Don't you think it odd, then, that the people who worked with him
in Tucson at the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory don't pronounce
it that way?

Jeff Root writes:

CeeBee wrote:

"Kuiper" rhymes with "piper" and "typer".

No, it doesn't. The Dutch ui-sound is not available in
English, which makes it impossible to pinpoint it.

Here's a short clip of a woman saying "de tuin" (the garden)
which has the same ui-pronunciation of "kuiper":
http://www.taalthuis.com/course/sounds/wav/ui1.wav

That sound is indistinguishable from "tun" or "ton" (unit
of mass), which is also close but not quite right. The
problem there may be merely the quality of the recording.

Here is a Dutch speaker pronouncing five Dutch names,
including Kuiper:

http://homepage.mac.com/schuffelen/Dutch/Brouwer.MP3

That recording isn't much better. It almost sounds like
he is saying "karper". But I'm told it is authentic.

Why rely on a poor recording? Talk to Tom Gehrels, who is
Dutch and worked with Kuiper in Tucson for a long time.

What's more important that any language pronounces it
as decided by the people using it, and in the end we all
know what we're talking about.

My suggestion was as good as you can get, and is adequate
for the task.

I disagree.