Absconding ISS to Venus L2 (VL2), whatever the radiation

Here's something other than hot rocks to speak of;

Besides the fact that so many testy opponents are intentionally
tossing flak (I'm assuming their not all idiots, just functioning as
loyal Borgs of their NASA/NSA/DoD collective), they're continually
ignoring some very fundamental laws of physics, laws pertaining to
*pressure* that shifts the vapor point of just about everything
(including blood) and otherwise greatly reduces dependency upon O2.

In spite of all that warm and fuzzy flak I'm taking, here is something
more of interest, for those actually intent upon reaching for the
Venus surface may be in for yet another surprise. This knowledge could
even improve upon our chances of making it on other planets that are
not quite like Earth.

I've located something of further interest for the task of converting
relatively small amounts of H2O into some rather enormous H2, like a
ratio of 25,000:1

As a result, the issues of obtaining H2 from heat and of a little
energy are further improved for our focusing upon various "can do"
considerations for planets such as Venus, having shifted the balance
in favor of life far more than I'd anticipated. The following most
recent page offers those links and of a tad bit more on the
opportunities that are at hand.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/can-do.htm

David Grinspoon seems to be another tough nut to crack, although at
least he's not being the absolute Borg of the pro-NASA collective, by
his suggesting things about Venus that are of somewhat more recent
history and, even though he's not willing to admit, his research and
subsequent publications are more favorable toward the possibility of
other life than not. Even Andrew Yee has offered numerous commentaries
of how life finds a way of surviving, even if that's in spite of our
misconceptions, or arrogance as I like to refer to it.

Essentially there is significant other life on Venus, or at least
there was such life as of 14+ years ago. Worst case scenario is that
we're seeing the remains of what used to be, though why leave town
simply because it's getting somewhat toasty hot, when you've got
seasons worth of cooler nighttime as well as unlimited energy in just
the atmospheric pressure differential alone, especially when that
differential is comprised of such terrifically dense CO2 that's
keeping the planets' mega tonnes of H2O aloft, as in buoyant in them
there relatively cool nighttime clouds.

BTW; thanks for keeping this topic open.

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS 1-253-8576061 http://guthvenus.tripod.com
alternate URL: http://www.geocities.com/bradguth

One of my keen interest is still with regard to learning more about
what sort of radiation there is at Earth L4/L5, as I've got a fairly
good idea as to what the relatively cool zone or semi-protected pocket
at Earth L2 has to offer. In further knowing what's at Earth L4/L5,
this knowledge would enable some further understanding as to what to
expect once a mission is fully solar exposed, whereas the solar
minimum (not maximum) is by far introducing the greater risk from
creating secondary radiation. Any pointers or leads as to the
radiation dosage at L4/L5 will be looked into, subsequently applied
into a couple of ongoing research papers (along with your name as
credit for this and of whatever other you'd like to contribute).

As for regarding the planet surface radiation, such as of Mars; this
is some fairly old and thereby outdated info, where the more recent
radiation exposure estimates have been scaled considerably higher,
although this example will offer some raw insight into what's what
with regard to shielding from cosmic rays in general.

From: Ken Myrtle )
Subject: Cosmic Rays, Van Allen Belt, and Radiation Shielding

1/ free space (given as represent a full solar exposure)
2/ surface without atmosphere (1/2 of free space value of sunset to
sunrise)
3/ surface with .007 bar CO2
4/ surface with .007 bar CO2 plus 10 gm/cm^2 aluminum wall
5/ surface with .007 bar CO2 plus 10 gm/cm^2 aluminum wall
plus 50 gm/cm^2 CO2 for radiation coming from more than
45 deg above the horizon (a CO2 tank on the roof).

Dosage to Blood forming organs (calculated at a depth of 5 cm)
| Cosmic Rays REM/yr | SPE
Case | solar min | solar max | REM
1 | 65.6 | 25.9 | 391.5
2 | 32.8 | 13.0 | 195.8
3 | 15.5 | 8.3 | 4.0
4 | 14.4 | 8.0 | 1.9
5 | 13.3 | 7.8 | 0.7


The above research; indicating that the mere 0.007 bar worth of the
Mars CO2 atmosphere seems to cut the influx of cosmic radiation
roughly in half, while cutting the SPE by a good factor of nearly 50,
though as for the prospect of adding an increase in the CO2 density
within a tight space (such as utilizing a surrounding tank of
compressed CO2 @50 g/cm2) manages not more than another 8% reduction
in relation to solar minimum influx.

Obviously the secondary radiation created mostly by the 10 g/cm2 of
aluminum is not being significantly cut by the liquified CO2, whereas
the Solar Particle Event (SPE) dosage is cut by more than half.

Unlike Mars, Venus seems to be surrounded by not only nearly 15,000
times greater density (especially at night) but, it's atmosphere
extends at least a hundred fold further out, thus permitting
sufficient separation or distance for not only blocking the primary
cosmic radiation but for also the secondary radiation to expend it's
energy as it's attempting to get through all that CO2 as well as H2SO4
(30% sulfuric acid) worth of cloud muck. Thus I'm thinking, that the
Venus daytime is not actually so much a cosmic radiation endurance
factor as is the UV consideration, where the ability of near UV and of
sufficient portions of the UV a/b/c spectrums to penetrate those
clouds is considerable, whereas the CO2 aspects are essentially clear
as a bell for whatever is making it through to reaching the surface.

If it were necessary to further reduce secondary radiation by anything
other, I've been informed that hydrogen (H2) is just the ticket. This
indicates that having a thermal barrier of perhaps those H2 filled
micro-spheres, as I've mentioned for accommodating an R-256 barrier of
thermal conduction insulation, within this formula/package the H2
could in fact provide not only the desired thermal isolation but
accommodate the best job of shielding from secondary radiation affects
caused by whatever is your primary shield density. Normally H2 is not
considered such a great thermal insulator, though placing the H2
(preferably under vacuum) within micro-spheres is going to represent
quite another issue, where R-256 might be obtained within as little as
25 mm.

Mars is already providing a near vacuum, whereas Venus is not, though
as for pulling a vacuum on Venus is not such a complicated task and,
as for hot H2 is even better. So, what I'm suggesting is that an
actual surface expedition to Venus is certainly not out of the
question, especially selecting a landing site that's within their
extended season of nighttime. Though a VL2 stationed ISS would more
than suffice as far as I'm concerned, still a spendy proposition but
nowhere as costly nor as risky as for doing anything as stupid as
actually setting foot on Venus. Besides, we might not be welcome.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/vl2-radiation.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS

Bad Astronomy Bulletin Board http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB
Discuss Bad Astronomy here!

That's sort of hard to do that if "You have been banned from this
forum"

Apparently "GUTH Venus has become way too hot for even Bad Astronomy".
However, this is what I first posted that obviously blew their fuse;

Subject/title: "Venus supports other life NOT as we know it"

In spite of my dyslexia and inabilities to tollerate those solely
intent upon destroying whatever's not there idea; first of all, this
topic is not of any mere idea, it's not a conjecture based upon
another black hole of nothingness, but of what can be seen unless
you're restricted to braille format, as there's been life NOT as we
know it and perhaps (most likely) surviving on Venus and, I sincerely
believe we (that's you and I) can sufficiently prove that point, at
least a whole lot better off than you or I can prove we've been to and
walked on the moon.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-187.htm



Perhaps it had a little something to do with my space radiation page
that's not exactly favorable for supporting those Apollo missions:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm

or regarding the Boeing/TRW ABL laser cannon thing, taking practice
shots at a certain shuttle:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/boeing/trw.htm

or of what other has been recently added and improved that's stashed
away on my good old update page:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-187.htm