How does biggest Titan compare with Saturn V?

What is our heavy lift capability now? Excluding the Shuttle? I think
the Saturn V could heave 100 tons into low Earth orbit, 52 tons to the
moon. Is it also true that the Apollo CM could have been modified for
six people just for transfer to orbit and back?

Bill wrote in
:

What is our heavy lift capability now? Excluding the Shuttle? I think
the Saturn V could heave 100 tons into low Earth orbit, 52 tons to the
moon. Is it also true that the Apollo CM could have been modified for
six people just for transfer to orbit and back?


Titan is no longer available; it was replaced by the
Delta IV Heavy which has a payload of 25 tons to low
orbit. This could almost be doubled with upgrades;
with major upgrades payload might increase to 90 tons
or so. Atlas V Heavy could be used in the same way.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...bls/flash.html

Shuttle components could be used without the orbiter for
heavy lift as well; this is called Shuttle-C or Shuttle-
Derived. Payloads would be similar to the uprated Delta IV
or Atlas V.

I don't know exactly what was proposed for Apollo; after
Shuttle other manned vehicle will take over the role
of transporting humans into space. They might resemble
an enlarged Apollo capsule. Or not.

--Damon

"Bill" wrote in message
...

What is our heavy lift capability now? Excluding the Shuttle? I think
the Saturn V could heave 100 tons into low Earth orbit, 52 tons to the
moon. Is it also true that the Apollo CM could have been modified for
six people just for transfer to orbit and back?

The US has two EELV launchers (e.g. developed to Air Force specifications in
1990s to largely replace Titan and Atlas).
.... not counting SeaLaunch/Zenit or its derivatives.
http://www.spaceandtech.com/spacedat...enit_sum.shtml

Lockheed Martin - Atlas 5 (various versions)
http://www.spaceandtech.com/spacedat...las5_sum.shtml
Boeing - Delta 4 (I believe Delta 4 Heavy has top life capability)
http://www.spaceandtech.com/spacedat...lta4_sum.shtml

Boeing reworked the Cape Launch Pad 37 facilities (old Saturn 1B launch
pads)
Lockheed Martin reworked Cape Launch Pad 41 (old Titan III and IV launch
pad)
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...v_020825b.html

Cape Launch ad 40 is scheduled to launch the last Titan IV in next few weeks
(end of era)
http://www.spaceandtech.com/spacedat...an4b_sum.shtml

At Vandenberg, Lockheed Martin is currently reworking a launch pad (old
Atlas?) and
Boeing reworked the SLC 6 pad (original AF MOL program and Shuttle SLC-6
facility)

Maybe 100 tones to LEO will be developed again -
maybe using common parts from these 2 launchers -- I hope so -- the current
need is likely 3 to 4 a year.
"Build it .. and they will come"

gb

"Bill" wrote in message
...
I think the Saturn V could heave 100 tons into low Earth orbit...
Is it also true that the Apollo CM could have been modified for
six people just for transfer to orbit and back?

The Saturn V could lift roughly 140 tons to LEO:
http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturnV/Introduction.pdf

A kit was developed for the Apollo CM that provided five
couches for a possible Skylab rescue mission. This was nearly
used during Skylab 3, when a service module RCS problem
initiated rescue preparations. The problem was later solved so
the rescue wasn't needed.

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apouecsm.htm

"gb" wrote in message
...
"Build it .. and they will come"

They built it, and few came.



gb

In article ,
Bill wrote:
What is our heavy lift capability now? Excluding the Shuttle? I think
the Saturn V could heave 100 tons into low Earth orbit, 52 tons to the
moon.

Depends a little on the assumptions you make, and on which flavor of "ton"
you're using. Using the metric ton like civilized people :-), Saturn V
payload to LEO was about 119t, to a lunar trajectory about 50t.

Titan IVB could insert 21.7t into a *very* low orbit (so low that you
would have to raise it further immediately). However, it's essentially
defunct now -- the production line is closed and the very last launch is
imminent.

The Heavy configurations of the EELVs -- Atlas V and Delta IV -- have
broadly similar capabilities. Atlas V Heavy is still a paper rocket at
the moment, LockMart having postponed development after failing to win any
business for it, but its payload to LEO is nominally 29t. Delta IV Heavy
is real, although it has flown only once so far and that flight had some
problems; it's rated at about 24t to LEO.

Various upgraded EELV configurations could *theoretically* do rather
better, although getting them up beyond 40-50t tends to require so much
"upgrading" that they would be essentially new rockets and would need
considerable development work.

Is it also true that the Apollo CM could have been modified for
six people just for transfer to orbit and back?

The CM could fairly easily be modified to hold six people for *emergency*
return -- the Skylab "rescue" configuration held five plus a small cargo
pallet. However, an accidental land touchdown in that configuration would
probably involve serious injury to all aboard, because the extra space was
mostly taken out of space normally reserved for the shock-absorber stroke
of the couch assembly. The safety margins are too thin to use that
configuration routinely as a crew ferry.

With a revised interior, and braking rockets if you wanted routine land
touchdown (this was studied early in Apollo), yes, it should be feasible.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

Henry Spencer wrote:

Saturn V payload to LEO was about 119t...

This needs some qualification. In theory all 3 stages of the Saturn V
could orbit this amount but the third (S-IVB) stage could not support
this massive a payload. In practice you would be limited to the first
two stages (a la Skylab) and the LEO payload falls to about 100t or
220,000 lbs.

You will also see the Saturn V payload variously quoted at 130 tonnes
or 140 tons or 285,000 lbs or something similar. This is derived from
the mass of the partially fuelled S-IVB - Apollo spacecraft
combination in LEO parking orbit which of course isn't all
discretionary payload so is not really comparable to the LEO payloads
of other launchers.

Jim Davis

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 02:56:07 GMT, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

They built it, and few came.

....Please, let's keep the group sex jokes to a dull thud.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

In article ,
lid says...

snip

A kit was developed for the Apollo CM that provided five
couches for a possible Skylab rescue mission. This was nearly
used during Skylab 3, when a service module RCS problem
initiated rescue preparations. The problem was later solved so
the rescue wasn't needed.

The problem wasn't so much solved as completely and correctly analyzed
and characterized. While the leaky thruster quads reduced the Skylab 3
CSM's maneuvering options, there was still sufficient control and delta-
V capability to allow the mission to continue normally.

However, the rescue CSM was outfitted with the extra couches and early
launch preparations were begun. (The rescue CSM and Saturn I-B were
always on the pad during Skylab missions, to ensure a timely rescue
capability -- I visited KSC over Christmas 1973 and saw the rescue
vehicle at the pad while the Skylab 4 crew was flying. That same Saturn
I-B that I saw on the pad in 1973 was used for ASTP 18 months later.)

If I'm remembering correctly, the rescue mission crew was Vance Brand
(CDR) and Bruce McCandless (PLT). But I could be wrong about the PLT
slot...

--

"The problem isn't that there are so | Doug Van Dorn
many fools; it's that lightning isn't |
distributed right." -Mark Twain

Damon Hill wrote:


Titan is no longer available; it was replaced by the
Delta IV Heavy which has a payload of 25 tons to low
orbit. This could almost be doubled with upgrades;
with major upgrades payload might increase to 90 tons
or so. Atlas V Heavy could be used in the same way.

They may be out of production but at least one Titan's available. In
fact, one (T4b) is on pad 40 right now and is set to hoist a KH-12
variant up early next month, on or around the 9th I believe...

T3