Attn: "Troll" Haters

I spent today reviewing my notes on The Fire, and I have a question for
those of you who are fond of calling me a "troll." According to NASA's
official timeline, at 2336 (all times GMT): "Hatches opened, outer
hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew impossible." At the very same
time, the Test Conductor writes in his log, "S/C hatch opened. S/C
hatch off. Too much smoke in S/C to see." At 2338, the Test Conductor
reports, "People available with mask but cannot see. 'Can feel
astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'" At the same time,
two technicians write, "Pad Leader and crew can't see to get
Astronauts. Pad Leader can feel Astronauts but can't see them." The
list goes one, but here's my question: How was NASA able to determine
"resuscitation of crew impossible" at 2336 when according to three
different logs no one could even SEE the crew? According to those same
two technicians, it wasn't until 2344 that Babbitt said "I better not
describe what I see," which NASA has claimed was "radio-speak" (my
term) for the crew being dead. Anyone have an explanation for NASA's
ESP?
P.S. to Scott Hedrick: these quotes come straight from the Hearings
Before the Subcommittee on NASA Oversight of the Committee on Science
and Astronautics, U.S. House of Representatives, Volume II, Part 1.,
and confirmed by other sources I've accumulated. :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...
I spent today reviewing my notes on The Fire, and I have a question for
those of you who are fond of calling me a "troll." According to NASA's
official timeline, at 2336 (all times GMT): "Hatches opened, outer
hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew impossible." At the very same
time, the Test Conductor writes in his log, "S/C hatch opened. S/C
hatch off. Too much smoke in S/C to see." At 2338, the Test Conductor
reports, "People available with mask but cannot see. 'Can feel
astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'" At the same time,
two technicians write, "Pad Leader and crew can't see to get
Astronauts. Pad Leader can feel Astronauts but can't see them." The
list goes one, but here's my question: How was NASA able to determine
"resuscitation of crew impossible" at 2336 when according to three
different logs no one could even SEE the crew? According to those same
two technicians, it wasn't until 2344 that Babbitt said "I better not
describe what I see," which NASA has claimed was "radio-speak" (my
term) for the crew being dead. Anyone have an explanation for NASA's
ESP?

Let's ask the question:

What do you think "impossible" means in this context?

a) it's not possible to do so.
b) it's not likey to be successful.

You're apparently believing that the note at 23:36 is saying the latter.

It's clearly saying the former. It's not possible to get to the crew,
remove them and get them to a point where medical treatment can be given.
And the logs at 23:36 and 23:38 support that. Entry to the capsule was
gained, but they couldn't see anything. Which of course made it possible to
do anything.


P.S. to Scott Hedrick: these quotes come straight from the Hearings
Before the Subcommittee on NASA Oversight of the Committee on Science
and Astronautics, U.S. House of Representatives, Volume II, Part 1.,
and confirmed by other sources I've accumulated. :-)

That is clearly a very thoughtful response, and I thank you. However,
let's focus on the OTHER word being used, "resuscitation," which means,
(from a pocket dictionary; I'll go to my "real" dictionary if you
prefer) to "bring back to life." How can they know it is not possible,
nor likely to be successful, if they cannot even see? And, you might
want to remember that the NASA timeline was released to the media
post-fire as an "explanation" of the events that occurred. So they
were clearly attempting to give explanations in hindsight, whereas the
technicians and the Test Conductor were giving explanations in real
time.
But, truly, thank you for the intelligent reply!

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:25:02 -0800, wrote:

That is clearly a very thoughtful response, and I thank you. However,
let's focus on the OTHER word being used, "resuscitation," which means,
(from a pocket dictionary; I'll go to my "real" dictionary if you
prefer) to "bring back to life." How can they know it is not possible,
nor likely to be successful, if they cannot even see? And, you might
want to remember that the NASA timeline was released to the media
post-fire as an "explanation" of the events that occurred. So they
were clearly attempting to give explanations in hindsight, whereas the
technicians and the Test Conductor were giving explanations in real
time.
But, truly, thank you for the intelligent reply!


"Hatches opened, outer hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew
impossible." At the very same time, the Test Conductor writes in his log,
"S/C hatch opened. S/C hatch off.


*Too much smoke in S/C to see."*

^This line may be the reason. ^


At 2338, the Test Conductor reports, "People available with mask but
cannot see. 'Can feel astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'"

The fact that they were in there a while and not showing any movementwhen
felt may also be an indicator. Maybe they could test for a pulse and found
none.

"Tom Randy" wrote in message
news
The fact that they were in there a while and not showing any movementwhen
felt may also be an indicator. Maybe they could test for a pulse and found
none.

Couldn't test for a pulse through a space suit and the suits were,
apparently melted to the seats. Having seen pictures of the suits, I can't
remember if they were in a condition to enable direct contact with the crew
without removing the suits, but they were badly burned. One of the helmets
was severely charred and had begun to cave in.

--
Alan Erskine
We can get people to the Moon in five years,
not the fifteen GWB proposes.
Give NASA a real challenge

In message , Tom Randy
writes

"Hatches opened, outer hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew
impossible." At the very same time, the Test Conductor writes in his log,
"S/C hatch opened. S/C hatch off.


*Too much smoke in S/C to see."*

^This line may be the reason. ^


At 2338, the Test Conductor reports, "People available with mask but
cannot see. 'Can feel astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'"

What's a battle light?

In article ,
Jonathan Silverlight
wrote:

In message , Tom Randy
writes

"Hatches opened, outer hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew
impossible." At the very same time, the Test Conductor writes in his log,
"S/C hatch opened. S/C hatch off.


*Too much smoke in S/C to see."*

^This line may be the reason. ^


At 2338, the Test Conductor reports, "People available with mask but
cannot see. 'Can feel astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'"

What's a battle light?

A type of flashlight (or perhaps "torch" might be a more familiar
term). I seem to remember a "battle light" being a specific type of
military grade flashlight shaped like an upside down letter "L". The
handle holds a couple or three medium to large dry cell batteries ("C"
or "D" commonly) and the top part, angled 90 degrees to the handle,
holds the bulb and reflector assembly. The whole thing is heavy-gauge
metal armored with fairly thick rubber. It's got O-rings at all the
openings including around the bulb lens, the base of the handle can be
disassembled to reveal a small compartment for spare bulbs, the
bulb/reflector end is threaded to accept various colored filters, etc.
My step-dad used to have one and it was very cool. Not as cool as my
Surefires, but you can pick them up for next to nothing at flea
markets and military surplus stores.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
GPG Key ID: BBF6FC1C
"Pray: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single
petitioner confessedly unworthy."
-- Ambrose Bierce
http://www.angryherb.net

In message ,
Herb Schaltegger writes
In article ,
Jonathan Silverlight
wrote:

In message , Tom Randy
writes

"Hatches opened, outer hatches removed. Resuscitation of crew
impossible." At the very same time, the Test Conductor writes in his log,
"S/C hatch opened. S/C hatch off.


*Too much smoke in S/C to see."*

^This line may be the reason. ^


At 2338, the Test Conductor reports, "People available with mask but
cannot see. 'Can feel astronauts but cannot see. Need battle lights.'"

What's a battle light?

A type of flashlight (or perhaps "torch" might be a more familiar
term).

My step-dad used to have one and it was very cool. Not as cool as my
Surefires, but you can pick them up for next to nothing at flea
markets and military surplus stores.


Thanks.

wrote:
Anyone have an explanation for NASA's ESP?

No. But...

When I was 27, my office-mate's sister died in a
bizarre car accident. For several weeks thereafter, I
continued to replay the accident--as it actually
happened--like a movie in my head. Then I would "edit"
that movie just a little--I changed the timing by no
more than one second--and voila! she survived.

Funny thing about that. I don't do funerals, but in
this case, the office-mate needed all the support she
could get, so I went anyway. I saw her sister's dead
body, and I watched her go into the ground.

My conclusion is that in spite of all that replay, you
cannot bring back the dead. And going over it again and
again serves no purpose unless there's something to be
learned to prevent a death of the same sort in the
future.

rl
--
"The world is filled with evil, and there are two ways
to react. The first way is easy, and wrong. To accept
it. The second way is harder, but right. You fight it,
and help others who fight to endure." Sheherazade

Herb Schaltegger wrote:
Not as cool as my Surefires

I was originally going to suggest this one might be sufficient:
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/.../419/sesent/00

But found Surefire has an HID flashlight that's pretty much insane
(twenty 3V 123 cells?!?):
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...4204/sesent/00

Not sure I'd want to be wielding an HID flashlight in an oxygen rich
environment, however.

- david "buys 123As by the dozen" higgins