Independence Day Thoughts

As I listen to firecrackers in the neighborhood, the following
question occurs to me: What is it we are celebrating? A day off for
barbeques and beer-drinking? It's supposed to be about the birth of
our nation, the signing of our Constitution. Yet, in reflecting on
what I've witnessed in this newsgroup and in my own life in the past
19 months come tomorrow, I realize we haven't gotten away from "Mother
England" at all. People are not welcome to express opinions that
differ from those of the majority. People are not welcome to
challenge government institutions. NASA employees defend NASA to the
death--literally. They are willing to allow deaths go unanswered,
dooming more such deaths to occur, and no one will stand up and say,
"Enough!" It's better to keep your mouth shut and keep that paycheck
coming in. It's always about the Almighty Dollar, never about
principle, and certainly never about right and wrong.
I've spent all of this time trying to make a difference among people
who do not WANT difference. They want automatons, robots programmed
to speak whatever the government has pre-programmed them to say.
Don't ask question, don't raise eyebrows; go along with the flow and
you'll be accepted. Dare to stand up, and you will be shot down.
Is this what our Founding Fathers risked their lives to accomplish?
Was this their vision? I think they would feel much the same as I do
today: ASHAMED of this country and its citizens. Men and women who
are more worried about being accepted than about being TRUE. Men and
women who want the government to tell them how to act, think, and
feel. People who want the government to tell them how to behave, when
to ask questions, and when to shut up.
This news group is an unfortunate reflection of the thinking of our
country as a whole, and it makes me ashamed to be an American. We
have become what our founders fought to keep us from becoming: Pawns
of government. We have short-circuited our own liberties by refusing
to step out from the safeness of the crowd. We may as well burn the
First Amendment to the Constitution; in practice it means absolutely
nothing in today's society.
Happy Fourth of July.
LaDonna

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
As I listen to firecrackers in the neighborhood, the following
question occurs to me: What is it we are celebrating? A day off for
barbeques and beer-drinking? It's supposed to be about the birth of
our nation, the signing of our Constitution.

Would you like to try that again LaDonna?

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...

As I listen to firecrackers in the neighborhood, the following
question occurs to me: What is it we are celebrating? A day off for
barbeques and beer-drinking?

pretty much

It's supposed to be about the birth of
our nation, the signing of our Constitution.

you mean the Declaration Of Independence. The Constitution was signed in
1787 or something, long after the events we celebrate today. There was this
whole Revolutionary War thing to take care of in the meantime...

Yet, in reflecting on
what I've witnessed in this newsgroup and in my own life in the past
19 months come tomorrow, I realize we haven't gotten away from "Mother
England" at all. People are not welcome to express opinions that
differ from those of the majority. People are not welcome to
challenge government institutions.

sure you are, you just have to back up your claims with proof.

Remember, there are mainly engineers on this ng. Engineers don't want
opinions, they want *datapoints*. Test results.

NASA employees defend NASA to the
death--literally. They are willing to allow deaths go unanswered,
dooming more such deaths to occur, and no one will stand up and say,
"Enough!"

except for the CAIB, you mean?

It's better to keep your mouth shut and keep that paycheck
coming in. It's always about the Almighty Dollar, never about
principle, and certainly never about right and wrong.

yes, it is.

I've spent all of this time trying to make a difference among people
who do not WANT difference.

no, you haven't tried to "make a difference". You've tried to get us to
accept unfounded, wild-ass, self-aggrandizing claims as gospel.

Again: datapoints, not unfounded opinions.

They want automatons, robots programmed
to speak whatever the government has pre-programmed them to say.

I think you'll find that anybody interested enough in spaceflight to post
regularly here is not exactly what you would call a conformist, sweetie.

Don't ask question, don't raise eyebrows; go along with the flow and
you'll be accepted.

as long as you can prove your claims

Dare to stand up, and you will be shot down.

no, if you dare to "stnd up"you will ntot be shot down. People will *take
postshots at you*, I've been there done that (try Googling for the
interminable debate we had a year ago about SPS). But if you say
intelligent, well-reasoned, well-documented things, you will nto get shot
down.

If you're just randomly slinging **** in the hopes that a chunk or two of it
will stick to the wall, however...

I think they would feel much the same as I do
today: ASHAMED of this country and its citizens. Men and women who
are more worried about being accepted than about being TRUE.

again: rocket scientists are hardly what you would call conformists, love.
We're here because we love manned spaceflight and want to keep the
accomplishments of the past alive. We're not here because it's the happening
place.

One thing you might bear in mind about usenet in general: only about ten
percent of the people who are on the internet even know what a newsgroup is.
You yourself don't quite seem to have grasped the concept. Us usenet
regulars are a small minority of this thing called the Internet.

Men and
women who want the government to tell them how to act, think, and
feel. People who want the government to tell them how to behave, when
to ask questions, and when to shut up.

nah, that's our spouse's job

This news group is an unfortunate reflection of the thinking of our
country as a whole,

not remotely true. A large majority of Americans have bno clue about manned
spacflight, and frankly don't care unless something soundbitable or tragic
happens.

Oh, and this newsgroup doesn't map to any specific country. Henry, for
instance, is a Brit loving in Canada. Several of our regulars are Aussies,
and many more are from other countries. This isn't "our" newsgroup. We're
global, baby!

and it makes me ashamed to be an American. We
have become what our founders fought to keep us from becoming: Pawns
of government.

you do realize that in the early days of our country, ordinary citizens had
no vote at all in determining our President and Vice President, yes? That
was all decided by Congress. My Fellow Americans never had any sort of say
in choosing the Father Of Our Country.

And you do realize that many of our Founding Fathers owned slaves, yes?

We have short-circuited our own liberties by refusing
to step out from the safeness of the crowd. We may as well burn the
First Amendment to the Constitution; in practice it means absolutely
nothing in today's society.

you do realize that today, right her right now, we have a level of personal
liberty and potential that was literally unimaginable to our Founding
Fathers, yes? And that a lot of the freedoms that we take for granted would
have very probably been abhorrent to them?

--
Terrell Miller


"Married men live longer than single men, but married men are a lot more
willing to die."
Proverb

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
. com...


As I listen to firecrackers in the neighborhood, the following
question occurs to me: What is it we are celebrating? A day off for
barbeques and beer-drinking? It's supposed to be about the birth of
our nation, the signing of our Constitution.



Would you like to try that again LaDonna?


Meanwhile, at the Moscow Cosmodrome, Marshall Nedelin was speculating on
the dual meaning of the term "May Day" as the new R-16 ICBM was readied
for its first launch... May Day was a day to celebrate the solidarity of
the world's workers, but also a signal for distress when used as "Mayday".
Under the old calendar, tomorrow would be the Anniversary Of The
October Revolution; he wondered if that would also have a duel
connotation someday.
Just then, the American space monkey Miss Sam appeared at the base of
the R-16's second stage, wielding a monkey wrench and a Ronson lighter.
Marshall Nedelin immediately knew what had happened...this was revenge
for the failed launch of Samos 1! The Americans had sent a clear signal
that the Soviet sabotage of the reconnaissance satellite's second stage
had been detected!
As the launch crew attempted to flee, terrorized by the sight of this
diminutive avenger from The Hell Of The West, the monkey wrench was
wielded with the skill that only a monkey truly posseses...then there
was flash of fire as the Ronson was lit and the mighty R-16 exploded in
flames!
Despite his complete lack of protective fire gear, the Hero-Marshall did
his duty, and charged directly into the inferno, never to be seen again.
At least that's what myself and my Nedelin Disaster investigation team
have been able to uncover so far.
Trust me; it happened just like that. ;-)

Pat

On 4 Jul 2004 19:27:02 -0700, in sci.space.history, (LaDonna Wyss) wrote:

nonsense snipped.

boring

On 2004-07-05, Terrell Miller wrote:

Oh, and this newsgroup doesn't map to any specific country. Henry, for
instance, is a Brit loving in Canada. Several of our regulars are Aussies,

I thought he was from a backwater part of Canada, not a backwater part
of Europe...

and many more are from other countries. This isn't "our" newsgroup. We're
global, baby!

A while ago, I started keeping a little list, just out of curiosity, to
see how many countries I run across on an (ir)regular basis on Usenet.
Based entirely on TLDs, thirty-three; probably a few more posting
through non-geographic (ie .org) domains. .ai through .pe to .ua...

Sure, this isn't just ss.*, but it's not exactly a large sample set -
most of it comes frome three, four newsgroups - and it's without
actively looking for them (which would make the list grow massively).
It's an interesting datapoint.

I think the rough breakdown is US, then the next tier broadly equal
UK/CA/AU, then a second layer of reasonably common (mostly European).
But I haven't checked.

--
-Andrew Gray

Pat Flannery wrote:


Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...


As I listen to firecrackers in the neighborhood, the following
question occurs to me: What is it we are celebrating? A day off for
barbeques and beer-drinking? It's supposed to be about the birth of
our nation, the signing of our Constitution.



Would you like to try that again LaDonna?


Meanwhile, at the Moscow Cosmodrome, Marshall Nedelin was speculating on
the dual meaning of the term "May Day" as the new R-16 ICBM was readied
for its first launch... May Day was a day to celebrate the solidarity of
the world's workers, but also a signal for distress when used as "Mayday".
Under the old calendar, tomorrow would be the Anniversary Of The
October Revolution; he wondered if that would also have a duel
connotation someday.
Just then, the American space monkey Miss Sam appeared at the base of
the R-16's second stage, wielding a monkey wrench and a Ronson lighter.
Marshall Nedelin immediately knew what had happened...this was revenge
for the failed launch of Samos 1! The Americans had sent a clear signal
that the Soviet sabotage of the reconnaissance satellite's second stage
had been detected!
As the launch crew attempted to flee, terrorized by the sight of this
diminutive avenger from The Hell Of The West, the monkey wrench was
wielded with the skill that only a monkey truly posseses...then there
was flash of fire as the Ronson was lit and the mighty R-16 exploded in
flames!
Despite his complete lack of protective fire gear, the Hero-Marshall did
his duty, and charged directly into the inferno, never to be seen again.
At least that's what myself and my Nedelin Disaster investigation team
have been able to uncover so far.
Trust me; it happened just like that. ;-)

Pat


Monkeys are a recurring theme. . .

Does this stem from a childhood experience?

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

"Hop David" wrote in message
...

Monkeys are a recurring theme. . .

Does this stem from a childhood experience?

have you seen Pat's cousins? g

--
Terrell Miller


"Married men live longer than single men, but married men are a lot more
willing to die."
Proverb

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Yet, in reflecting on
what I've witnessed in this newsgroup and in my own life in the past
19 months come tomorrow, I realize we haven't gotten away from "Mother
England" at all.

Ah, so *that* is your pet name for Betty.

It's always about the Almighty Dollar,

Sounds like a confession on your part. Shame on you for trying to profit off
of Apollo 1.

I think they would feel much the same as I do
today: ASHAMED of this country and its citizens.

That says loads about you. I don't see that the United States has anything
to be ashamed about.

Men and women who
are more worried about being accepted than about being TRUE.

Since you don't have any idea what "truth" is, you need not worry about it.

"Alan Erskine" wrote in message
...
Dear God, I'm an Australian and I've never been to America but I know
that!!
What an absolute ****wit! skuze the language, but ****! smacks forehead
in
absolute, shear amazement at how dumb this troll ["LaDonna"] is

Yeah, how about those crackerjack investigative skills of hers?