Recommend a telescope (i'm so confused!)

First off...

I've been a long time star gazer and I can read a star map and know my
way around the sky with out the map. I understand setting up a
telescope manually to use map coordinates to find objects with out a
finder scope. But...I have always had cheap telescopes or binoculars
growing up. Recently I purchased a Discovery stores Sky and Land 70mm
refractor for my son along with a Clestron lens kit from
telescopes.com. I plan on using the lens with my soon to be purchased
telescope. I was able to show my son Saturn and Jupiter also fuzzy
comet Machholz. The new lens really improved my sons telescope. But I
want something better, much better for myself.

Now my questions, errr plea for help...

I know you all get tired of seeing these post but I don't have anyone
or know anyone to help guide me on this purchase.

I'm interested in buying a telescope for DSO. My main use would be
educating my kids, showing friends and family and exploring random
spots, maybe find my own comet. Let me dream =) I would also like to
do astrophotography using a web cam. I understand aperture is the most
important thing. But I want a portable system I can put in the back of
my midsize suv and setup by myself. I'm in the military so it would be
packed up and shipped every 3+ years. So it would need to be rugged.
Although I only have 8 years left till I retire I might be better off
waiting on the massive aperture scope. Thoughts?

I'm considering the Meade ETX-125PE since it looks good for
portability and web cam astrophotography. Plus it should be ready to
use pretty quickly. It appears to be fairly rugged compared to other
designs.

Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?
Astrophotography possible with these?

Truss mounts like teeters telescopes planet killers look very tempting
due to the huge apertures. Has anyone used these? Are they worth it?
Can 1 person set these up alone? Are these manual moving only? Can you
do astophotography with these scopes?

I do apologize I'm just lost in all this. Does anyone have any other
suggestion or know a website that has plenty of reviews?

Thanks all!

Since you basically know the sky, the cheap Dob type scope in a 6" or larger
size with a Telerad or Rigel finder will do you very nicely.
Consider getting the largest scope you can for what money you have. You
will appreciate the better light gathering that the larger scope has when
you get out there looking at things.
The littler scopes with GPS and so forth are nice toys but you spend a lot
of money on things that don't really do much for the light getting to the
eye.

--
Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:25:46 +0000, RavenX wrote:

Sounds like you need a 8" SCT. Portable, astrophotography capable,
easy to setup (cool down sux), very rugged with a JMI case.

www.buytelescopes.com should have plenty of reviews as well as
www.cloudynights.com

Luck,

In article ,
says...
First off...

I've been a long time star gazer and I can read a star map and know my
way around the sky with out the map. I understand setting up a
telescope manually to use map coordinates to find objects with out a
finder scope. But...I have always had cheap telescopes or binoculars
growing up. Recently I purchased a Discovery stores Sky and Land 70mm
refractor for my son along with a Clestron lens kit from
telescopes.com. I plan on using the lens with my soon to be purchased
telescope. I was able to show my son Saturn and Jupiter also fuzzy
comet Machholz. The new lens really improved my sons telescope. But I
want something better, much better for myself.

Now my questions, errr plea for help...

I know you all get tired of seeing these post but I don't have anyone
or know anyone to help guide me on this purchase.

I'm interested in buying a telescope for DSO. My main use would be
educating my kids, showing friends and family and exploring random
spots, maybe find my own comet. Let me dream =) I would also like to
do astrophotography using a web cam. I understand aperture is the most
important thing. But I want a portable system I can put in the back of
my midsize suv and setup by myself. I'm in the military so it would be
packed up and shipped every 3+ years. So it would need to be rugged.
Although I only have 8 years left till I retire I might be better off
waiting on the massive aperture scope. Thoughts?

I'm considering the Meade ETX-125PE since it looks good for
portability and web cam astrophotography. Plus it should be ready to
use pretty quickly. It appears to be fairly rugged compared to other
designs.

The Meade ETX is okay, but the views of DSOs will be disappointing. Yes
it makes it easy to find them, but most will look like faint smudges.
Another issue you will have with it, is the cool down. It takes about 90
minutes to reach ambient temps. So the ETX is not something you can just
grab and be observing with in a couple of minutes. Yes you can see
things immedieatly, but you will also be seeing thermal currents in the
tube which will give poor images.


Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?
Astrophotography possible with these?

You do have to move the dobs manually, but you get the most bang/buck
with them. They also have to cool down, but typically take about 30
minutes to cool.

One thing you can look at is Orion's Intellescope series. It has a push-
to system that directs you to what direction to move the scope to your
target.

Truss mounts like teeters telescopes planet killers look very tempting
due to the huge apertures. Has anyone used these? Are they worth it?
Can 1 person set these up alone? Are these manual moving only? Can you
do astophotography with these scopes?

I'm not familiar enough with these to answer this.

I do apologize I'm just lost in all this. Does anyone have any other
suggestion or know a website that has plenty of reviews?

Check Cloudynights.com or scopereviews.com for good reviews of
equipment. Also check out your local astronomy club and go to one of
their meetings and Star parties. This will give you a chance to look
through a variety of scopes and talk to the owners of them to find out
their pros and cons.

Hope this helps
Craig


Thanks all!

Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?
Astrophotography possible with these?

A newtonian/dobsonian provides views as good or better than same size scopes
of other designs, and their relative low cost makes them a tremendous value.
They are not easily adapted for astrophotography. Finding stuff is not a
big deal if you have access to reasonably dark skies, and in fact is a part
of astronomy that many observers (my sons and me included) enjoy a lot.

However, the best advice is to seek out an astro club local to you and
attend some star parties. You can look through all kinds of scopes and talk
about equipment and observing all night. Then, you can decide for yourself.

Dennis

"RavenX" wrote in message
...

I'm interested in buying a telescope for DSO.

6" aperture minimum, 8" or larger recommended

My main use would be
educating my kids, showing friends and family and exploring random
spots, maybe find my own comet. Let me dream =) I would also like to
do astrophotography using a web cam.

Sorry, but this is a conflict of interests. Exploring is something that is
best done with a simple altazimuth mount, like the Dob, or any scope on a
non EQ mount. OTOH, keeping an object in the eyepiece, or in the Camera is
the purpose of an EQ mount.


I understand aperture is the most
important thing. But I want a portable system I can put in the back of
my midsize suv and setup by myself. I'm in the military so it would be
packed up and shipped every 3+ years. So it would need to be rugged.
Although I only have 8 years left till I retire I might be better off
waiting on the massive aperture scope. Thoughts?

An 8" F6 Dob isn't massive. Nor is an 8" SCT on a mount like the Unistar
from Universal Astronomics. Although you _will_ need to allocate space.


I'm considering the Meade ETX-125PE since it looks good for
portability and web cam astrophotography. Plus it should be ready to
use pretty quickly. It appears to be fairly rugged compared to other
designs.

Well, as nice as this scope might be, because of it's long focal length, it
is limited to a narrow field of view, as well as falling below the 6"
minimum for DSO's. Sort of a double whammy unless you are okay with those
limitations.


Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?

I just spent some time procuring and setting up a GoTo German Equatorial
mount for my 4" F9 refractor. I also intend to get a larger aperture scope
for this mount at a later date. Funny thing.... last night I just wanted to
take a quick tour of objects at well known locations, which is a perfect
task for the 4" refractor. But, I didn't want to carry out the GEM and
battery, and go through the alignment proceuder, so instead I pulled the GEM
head off the tripod, popped on the UniStar Light altazimuth head, attached
the 4" refractor and went out to poke around. Believe it or not, that swap
procedure takes less time than setting up and aligning the GoTo. ;-)

The main point of course being that if you are under the gun to get outside
and poke around for a half hour or so, nothing beats having some knowledge
of where to look, and a simple Up/Down, Left/Right mount (altazimuth). For
showing things to others, few will have the patience to stand around while
you align the GoTo computer. This task takes time. Equally though, folks
will not want to stand around for 10 minutes while you search in vain for an
object to observe.

The best advice is to get yourself a scope, learn how to aim, and then start
showing others. You suggest that you are familiar with the sky, so all you
need do is become familiar with the process of aiming a scope.

Astrophotography possible with these?

That's a big, expensive, work-filled word. Imaging is not a task you can
enter lightly. It requires a good mount, a CCD, and software and computer
skills. Put it off for later.


Truss mounts like teeters telescopes planet killers look very tempting
due to the huge apertures. Has anyone used these? Are they worth it?
Can 1 person set these up alone? Are these manual moving only? Can you
do astophotography with these scopes?

I do apologize I'm just lost in all this.

Slow down. Start simple. Work your way into it. Even though I started out
with a small GoTo scope like the ETX series, I prefer to use a manual
altazimuth mounted scope for "point and look" observing, whether it's my
12.5" Solid Tube Monster Dob, or my 4" F9 ED refractor. Manual tracking is
only a bother at "planet" (high) powers. Better than 90% of deep sky
observing is done at mid to low power.

Get an 8" F6 Dobsonian, and don't look back. Later, if you want to do
imaging, add a second "imaging" setup to experiment with. If you stick with
it, great. If you don't, well even if you do, you will still want that 8" F6
Dob for simple poking around the sky.

Stephen Paul wrote:
Get an 8" F6 Dobsonian, and don't look back. Later, if you want to do
imaging, add a second "imaging" setup to experiment with. If you stick with
it, great. If you don't, well even if you do, you will still want that 8" F6
Dob for simple poking around the sky.



I'd concur with just about everything that Stephen says here, including
the recommendation of an 8" dob. You'll probably want to move up to
something larger later, but for the money it simply can't be beat.

As for imaging, a dob is not the answer. You can buy an equatorial
platform so that it will track, but my experience is that for
astrophotography your results will always improve with mass and
simplicity in the mounting: mass to provide a solid platform, and
simplicity to eliminate as many moving parts as possible. An eq platform
for a dob fails on both accounts. Unless you buy a real dog of an
instrument optically, you'll never come close to finding its limits
until it's on an enormous, massive equatorial mounting.

However, while few people take Hubble telescope pix from their
backyards, that's no reason not to experiment with imaging. I personally
find it a real kick, despite its drawbacks. And if you think it's tough
now, current technology makes it a piece of cake compared to twenty
years ago. I think that Stephen is too much of a perfectionist in this
regard - I'm not.

So buy your inexpensive dob and enjoy it, and save your money for
something with a little more imaging potential down the line - it might
simply be a big eq mount to put your dob on, as an 8" f/6 is a nice,
versatile scope for taking pictures.

Best of luck, and welcome - Chris

A purchased my first scope 2 years ago. A Schmidt-Newtonian. Works
great and all but if I knew then what I know now. It would have been a
Dob all the way. I have been to a few observing sessions with some
members of a local astronomy club. One had a 12 classic Dob like the
one's Meade and Celestron sells. And another member used a Truss Dob.
All of which were needed to be moved manually. The Truss Dob had an
NGC-Max digital setting circles but we did not use them.

The Truss Dob was a 20" Obsession. I found myself at this scope more
then any. Probably because of the large aperture. But they are kind of
expensive for me. The 12" brought out some great detail also.

The 12" Dob is what I would go with. Then save for something bigger.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:25:46 +0000, RavenX wrote:

First off...

I've been a long time star gazer and I can read a star map and know my
way around the sky with out the map. I understand setting up a
telescope manually to use map coordinates to find objects with out a
finder scope. But...I have always had cheap telescopes or binoculars
growing up. Recently I purchased a Discovery stores Sky and Land 70mm
refractor for my son along with a Clestron lens kit from
telescopes.com. I plan on using the lens with my soon to be purchased
telescope. I was able to show my son Saturn and Jupiter also fuzzy
comet Machholz. The new lens really improved my sons telescope. But I
want something better, much better for myself.

Now my questions, errr plea for help...

I know you all get tired of seeing these post but I don't have anyone
or know anyone to help guide me on this purchase.

I'm interested in buying a telescope for DSO. My main use would be
educating my kids, showing friends and family and exploring random
spots, maybe find my own comet. Let me dream =) I would also like to
do astrophotography using a web cam. I understand aperture is the most
important thing. But I want a portable system I can put in the back of
my midsize suv and setup by myself. I'm in the military so it would be
packed up and shipped every 3+ years. So it would need to be rugged.
Although I only have 8 years left till I retire I might be better off
waiting on the massive aperture scope. Thoughts?

I'm considering the Meade ETX-125PE since it looks good for
portability and web cam astrophotography. Plus it should be ready to
use pretty quickly. It appears to be fairly rugged compared to other
designs.

Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?
Astrophotography possible with these?

Truss mounts like teeters telescopes planet killers look very tempting
due to the huge apertures. Has anyone used these? Are they worth it?
Can 1 person set these up alone? Are these manual moving only? Can you
do astophotography with these scopes?

I do apologize I'm just lost in all this. Does anyone have any other
suggestion or know a website that has plenty of reviews?

Thanks all!

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord


"RavenX" wrote in message
...
First off...

I've been a long time star gazer and I can read a star map and know my
way around the sky with out the map. I understand setting up a
telescope manually to use map coordinates to find objects with out a
finder scope.

Darn! Starlord beat me to it. Then again, it IS his site.

Start he

http://home.inreach.com/starlord

Read the whole thing. It explains a lot and there are some tradeoffs
you need to make right off the back. You have some conflicting
desires. This isn't good or bad, it just is. Some specific answers
(they are NOT a substitute for reading the above) are below.


I'm interested in buying a telescope for DSO.

Stop right here. This means aperature, the more the better. In a
bang for buck world, you are now talking Dob, 8" and up.

My main use would be
educating my kids, showing friends and family and exploring random
spots, maybe find my own comet. Let me dream =) I would also like to
do astrophotography using a web cam.

Stop again. Astrophotography and "Dob" don't mix. You are now
talking about something mounted on an aligned mount, preferably with
some kind of tracking (or a software field derotater).

I understand aperture is the most
important thing.

Not necessarily. This depends on what you want to look at. For
DSO's, you are right. You want light gathering power.

But I want a portable system I can put in the back of
my midsize suv and setup by myself. I'm in the military so it would be
packed up and shipped every 3+ years. So it would need to be rugged.
Although I only have 8 years left till I retire I might be better off
waiting on the massive aperture scope. Thoughts?

Careful packaging. Seriously. Almost any telescope will survive this
given a little care.



I'm considering the Meade ETX-125PE since it looks good for
portability and web cam astrophotography. Plus it should be ready to
use pretty quickly. It appears to be fairly rugged compared to other
designs.

A bit small for serious DSO observing.


Dobs look good for the price. But they are so cheap which sort of
scares me. Also the mount system looks like I have to manually move
the scope which could make finding DSO a real burden. Is this correct?
Astrophotography possible with these?

First, the cheap price is the idea. They are a quality optical system
in a simple case and mount. All your money goes into optics and
nothing into frills. DO NOT be scared of dobs. Finding DSO's in a
dob isn't a problem once you learn the sky. The very best telescopes
I see for observing DSO's are high end, large dobs.

Oh, but you can pretty well forget astrophptography with these.


Truss mounts like teeters telescopes planet killers look very tempting
due to the huge apertures. Has anyone used these? Are they worth it?
Can 1 person set these up alone? Are these manual moving only? Can you
do astophotography with these scopes?

This kind of depends on the size. remember, most truss mount scopes
are just dobs with a different tube design. Most are manual moving
only (you can automate them, but it is expensive) and how many people
it takes to set them up depends on the size. The primaries tend to be
VERY heavy.

Oh, and you can pretty well forget astrophotography with these.



I do apologize I'm just lost in all this. Does anyone have any other
suggestion or know a website that has plenty of reviews?

My suggestions:

1. First, read StarLord's article.

2. Find a local astronomy club. If you are in the San Diego Area,
check out the SDAA website. If you are elsewhere, let us know where
and we can try to hook you up with somebody. Check out as many
telescopes as you can, look through them, and ask questions. Figure
out what you might be interested in by looking through scopes to the
greatest extent possible.

3. As for your needs, depending on the price you are looking at, I
would suggest:

a. A SCT in the 8-10 inch class. I'd mount it on a GEM, but the
forks work as well if you don't mind dealing with a wedge once you
want to do photography. These will be a bit more expensive, but are
relatively small and easy to handle. This would be something like can
be seen he

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c914sgt.htm

This type of scope is very popular and comes in a wide variety of
flavors.

b. A newtonian reflector mounted on a GEM in the 8-10" class. This
will be half the price of a SGT. It will, however, require a bit more
"care and feeding" and will be a bit larger and harder to handle. A
similar scope would be:

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c10ngt.htm

I've been seeing fewer and fewer of these for some reason. Most
people will cut the price down even farther and go with a Dob instead
of this setup. The only difference between this scope and a Dob is
the mounting. The advantage here is that you can dabble with your
astrophotography.

I hope this helps.

Clear, Dark Skies


Mark