51-L RCS Valve Commands *Not* Checked

Here's evidence from the 51-L Presidential Commission that
Coultas told the truth when he testified that he did not check
the RCS valve commands. Notice carefully that the OMS
list includes those commands, while the RCS list does *not*:

http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v2appl.htm (pp. L-23, 26)

"All Orbital Maneuvering System (OMS) measurements
(temperatures, pressures, events, commands and stimuli,
and switch positions) were reviewed along with all General
Purpose Computer (GPC) data relating to the OMS. There
were no indications of anomalous behavior from any of the
data. All temperature and pressure transducers active during
ascent for the Reaction Control System (RCS) were reviewed,
including thruster chamber pressure, leak temperature, line
temperature, propellant tank, helium tank, and propellant line
transducers."

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

Michael Gardner wrote in message
...

To complete the quote "Nothing was found that would have
had an effect on the accident. "

I was waiting for you to bring that up, UIUC heckler. How
many engineering graduates is NASA hiring from UIUC this year?
I've read that in the past the proportion from UIUC has been
(unexplainedly if not undeservedly) high.

What you've quoted above is merely weasel-wording. It assumes
but does not prove that 51-L was "an accident" caused by design
defects in booster segment mating. It takes that assumption one
ridiculous step further by stating that once *that* "accident" was
assumed, no search for RCS valve commands was conducted!

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

Michael Gardner wrote in message
...

To complete the quote "Nothing was found that would have
had an effect on the accident. "

How did you manage to miss what that *refers to*, braintrust?

"All **temperature and pressure transducers** active
during ascent for the Reaction Control System (RCS)
were reviewed, ..."

When you tail my every quote, you're not *completing* them,
you're spinning them, by adding what you *wish* I had quoted.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

snip stuff

Out of curiosity, what is "leak temperature" in the RCS?

In article , "John Maxson"
wrote:

All temperature and pressure transducers active during
ascent for the Reaction Control System (RCS) were reviewed,
including thruster chamber pressure, leak temperature, line
temperature, propellant tank, helium tank, and propellant line
transducers."

I don't want to get into the Maxsons vs Newsgroup battle. But I'm
curious about one thing so I'll ask anyway out of ignorance: Let's say
for the sake of argument that the 'valve commands' weren't checked, and
that as a result significant data was overlooked. The Maxsons'
hypothesis seems to be that the RCS jets fired. Could the RCS jets fire
without being detected in any other parameter that we know *was* checked?

-A

--
Remove .kil to reply by email.

Alasdair McKie wrote in news:amlist.kil-
:

In article , "John Maxson"
wrote:

All temperature and pressure transducers active during
ascent for the Reaction Control System (RCS) were reviewed,
including thruster chamber pressure, leak temperature, line
temperature, propellant tank, helium tank, and propellant line
transducers."

I don't want to get into the Maxsons vs Newsgroup battle. But I'm
curious about one thing so I'll ask anyway out of ignorance: Let's say
for the sake of argument that the 'valve commands' weren't checked, and
that as a result significant data was overlooked. The Maxsons'
hypothesis seems to be that the RCS jets fired. Could the RCS jets fire
without being detected in any other parameter that we know *was* checked?

No, definitely the thruster chamber pressure parameter would have caught
it.


--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

"Alasdair McKie" .
Could the RCS jets fire
without being detected in any other parameter that we know *was* checked?

Good question. The RCS engines contained pressure sensors. The output of the
pressure sensors was sent to the ground via telemetry. No anomalous readings
were obtained.....until the explosion.

When the explosion ocurred, the RCS engines detected an overpressure of 200 psi
produced by the ignition of the ET contents.

This seems to be on point:
http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v5part3b.htm#5
and more info at
http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v4part5.htm
http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v5p1227.htm

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:35:01 +0000, Jorge R. Frank wrote:

Alasdair McKie wrote in news:amlist.kil-
:

The Maxsons' hypothesis seems to be that the RCS jets fired.
Could the RCS jets fire without being detected in any other
parameter that we know *was* checked?

No, definitely the thruster chamber pressure parameter would have caught
it.

The Maxson concurrent riff is the supposed Niobium splatters or
droplets that supposedly show that "terrible things" happened
during the supposed RCS firings on ascent. Niobium is used as a
coating in the RCS system.

I actually get curious and went looking for these Niobium splatters
in the Rogers Report.

Didn't find them... because they don't exist.

....

What _does_ exist is yet another Maxson misinterpreted
something-from-nothing red herring. Yet another case of Maxson
looking for anything that might involve the RCS and and waving as
supposed "evidence"... no matter what it _actually_ says.

http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v3appoe8.htm

1.2.5 Miscellaneous Structures and Components

"Some of the upper tile surfaces on the body flap had a sandpaper
feel as well as metal impingement on them. In addition, a leading
edge tile had a bubbled appearance on the coating surface. X-ray
Diffraction identified alpha aluminum oxide on the upper tile
surfaces. Metallic spheres with varying composition were under the
bubbled area. Several were high in iron with moderate to minor
amounts of chromium, nickel, aluminum, cobalt, and traces of
niobium."

Traces of Niobium.
No Niobium splatters.

Further on:

"Analysis of molten splatters on the base heat shield showed
nickel, iron, chromium, cobalt, copper, zinc, and manganese varying
from major to trace depending on location of the sample. Only trace
amounts of niobium and titanium were found."

Trace amounts of Niobium.
No Niobium splatters.

I should have known....

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just members of the
Society For Encouraging Selective Capitalization of the Elements?"

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:08:42 +0000, Chuck Stewart wrote:


Niobium is used as a coating in the RCS system.

Goof... should wake before posting.

The RCS combustion chambers are composed of Niobium, referred to by
NASA with the less noble term columbium.

The chambers have a Niobium disilicide coating becuase the metal
tends to oxidize rapidly above a few hundred degrees. I was
thinking of that when I posted.

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

James Oberg wrote in message
news
"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
Alasdair McKie wrote

Could the RCS jets fire without being detected in any other
parameter that we know *was* checked?

One might be able to come up with a hypothetical sensing-failure for
that, but NASA FOIA data shows that 51-L firings *were* detected.

No, definitely the thruster chamber pressure parameter would
have caught it.

Injector temperatures are useful in detecting RCS firings.

Nobody seems to have seen ANY pressure readings even remotely
suggestive of ANY jet firings on 51-L (or any other ascent in that
decade).

Hmmm, and to think I got mine from NASA via the FOIA.

The chamber temps would also reflect any combustion that occurred
(by rising), or any single-prop leak that occurred (by falling) suddenly
-- also, no such effect seems to have been seen.

Ah, another of this newsfroup's patented "nobody seems" experts, and
a redundant one, at that.

During ascent, in those years, the only flight software modules that
are even authorized to send RCS commands are in the RTLS abort
mode, inter alia as a forward prop dump measure, as I recall.

Well, maybe others at JSC really *did* read my book.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)