Shopping telescopes.

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.Netfirms.com/
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

"Livingston" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have been observing for some odd two years now.
I have bought my equipment small and cheap up until now.
I have an Orion 70mm refractor, a pair of 12x50 Scenex binocs,
and just got a pair of Celestron Skymaster 15x70 binocs. The
Celestrons are being serviced right now, they came out of alignment
and produced double images.

Thing is, I am ready to move up. I want to be able to magnify what I
have observed more, and would also like to go deeper. Seeing m13 as a
faint fuzzball and only detecting the inner most portion of the
Andromeda galaxy is a real drag.

I am satisfied with the binocs, it is cool over time your hands learn
to steady themselves. The telescope though... I tell you. I feel like
a gymnast sometimes with the positions I must get into to aim that
thing. I am 6' tall, so the activity of trying to target any object
over my head where observing is best is just plain impossible.
I got fed up trying to target the Andromeda galaxy the other night.

I have no interest in auto finding systems. I want to learn the sky.
Auto drive might be nice, but appears costly. It is easy enough to tap
the scope with my fingers, and this has a certain earthy feel to it.
I enjoy the work.

I figure I should go for a dobsonian, and have honed in on the Orion
Skyquests. I have a number of questions though. It really is a choice
between the 6", the 8", and the 10". I could have the 6" right now,
or I could wait and save for the larger sizes. What has been your
experiences? Will I find great limitations with the 6" in terms of
light gathering power? I am drawn to the 8" really. How is nebula
observing with the 6"? Something I have never done yet, I mean I have
yet to see much more of the Orion Nebula than just the wispy cloud
like haze surrounding the sword star of Orion, and I do believe I have
read the Orion Nebula actually covers an area 6 times the size of the
Moon in the sky. I suppose I have read all Messier objects can be seen
with 7x50 binocs, but c'mon, the Owl Nebula in those? Please. How
would the Messier list be with a 6"? I assume it would work well.

In addition, once again I see a finder scope design that looks like it
will keep me exercising all through the evening to target objects over
my head. What options are there to avoid this? I tell you what I would
really like, a laser pointer for a targeter, but I assume that would
be illegal because of the minute infinitesimal risk to pilots
overhead. How do experienced observers solve this dilemma?

Also, for those who have used a Skyquest, is it easy to move as
objects slowly rotate? Does it stay on target until you decide to tap
and move it?

How about a fine focus? You see, on my 70mm refractor, the whole thing
gets going vibrating when I focus, so I am forced to feel where the
sweet spot is with broad sweeps and then try to hit this spot.
Needless to say, I always get close, yet when observing Mars recently
I pump the thing way beyond it's limit to 232x sometimes. If I could
get that sweet spot, it would not be all that bad an observing
experience, but it is hard to do.

Also, I see Orion recommends a laser collimater for the 8" and up, but
not for the 6". Any idea why? Does it go out of alignment less? Is
doing this job with the included cap easy enough for those with some
mechanical ability? Or, should you get the laser tool?

So, feedback? Advice?

- Livingston

Thanks, FAQ read. But, it did not answer my questions.

I hope there are some folks around here who like to chat.
I see from the thread speculating men did not actually land on the
moon that this corner of usenet is quite similar to the rest of
cyberspace... Pres. Reagan sure did goof when he largely defunded our
mental health institutions. No disrespect to the paranoid amongst us,
they keep people honest and they make life more colorful.

One note on your FAQ: there is a tone of being concerned with, or at
least aggravated by, what others think of your abilities, equipment,
etc... who the **** cares? Unkind people who take the opportunity to
look down at you over such unimportant material concerns are usually
really just exposing their own inner sense of inferiority and need to
lift their selves up stepping on another.

Personally, I do not care if some neurotic wants to exercise his
superiority complex. I want to enjoy the amazing beauty and revel in
awe at the grandness of space and it's apparant perfection. I always
figured people who enjoy this hobby are exceptional in their spiritual
development, and that I would not encounter this namby pamby weak
spirited a-Christian competitive bull**** at a star party gathering.
I certainly hope I am correct, I have never met a coarse person who
looks up and wonders at the magnificence of it all. They are too busy
getting drunk and chasing pussy. [chuckle] Just joking, somewhat...

So, any one else wish to help me out, or is this group a dead zone?
The finder issue is the one that really burns for me, I want to be
able to target over my head, which is practically impossible now.

- Livingston


On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:15:06 -0700, "Starlord"
wrote:

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

G'day Livingston,

In article ,
says...
Thanks, FAQ read. But, it did not answer my questions.

I hope there are some folks around here who like to chat.
I see from the thread speculating men did not actually land on the
moon that this corner of usenet is quite similar to the rest of
cyberspace... Pres. Reagan sure did goof when he largely defunded our
mental health institutions. No disrespect to the paranoid amongst us,
they keep people honest and they make life more colorful.

Yep there's a few of us g.

One note on your FAQ: there is a tone of being concerned with, or at
least aggravated by, what others think of your abilities, equipment,
etc... who the **** cares? Unkind people who take the opportunity to
look down at you over such unimportant material concerns are usually
really just exposing their own inner sense of inferiority and need to
lift their selves up stepping on another.

Astronomy like most other hobbies has it's gear heads. I've just read the
FAQ and apart from a couple of minor errors (eg: Coma in Newtonians) it's
a pretty fair effort at disseminating the usual advise to the terminally
confused.

Personally, I do not care if some neurotic wants to exercise his
superiority complex. I want to enjoy the amazing beauty and revel in
awe at the grandness of space and it's apparant perfection. I always
figured people who enjoy this hobby are exceptional in their spiritual
development, and that I would not encounter this namby pamby weak
spirited a-Christian competitive bull**** at a star party gathering.
I certainly hope I am correct, I have never met a coarse person who
looks up and wonders at the magnificence of it all. They are too busy
getting drunk and chasing pussy. [chuckle] Just joking, somewhat...

Hehe, the main reason I gave up on astronomy clubs about 30 years ago was
the terminal BS slung by the members and the non stop "one up-manship"
crud that goes on. From what I've seen at a couple of star parties here
in Oz it's not got any better, if anything it's probably got worse in the
past decade or so.

So, any one else wish to help me out, or is this group a dead zone?
The finder issue is the one that really burns for me, I want to be
able to target over my head, which is practically impossible now.

It's not a dead zone lol. Overhead targeting huh, have you considered a
right angle finder with amici prism?

Clear skies,
Ian

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:39:08 +0800, Ian W
wrote:


Yep there's a few of us g.

Cool, I have noted over the past few years that the group of people I
encounter on the internet appears to be thinning in the places I
visit.

Astronomy like most other hobbies has it's gear heads. I've just read the
FAQ and apart from a couple of minor errors (eg: Coma in Newtonians) it's
a pretty fair effort at disseminating the usual advise to the terminally
confused.

Of course, I agree, and surely I did not absorb every fact at the page
there was to learn. I just hate to see good folk annoyed by the
materialistic dweebs of the world. Maybe I should not have read the
stuff about that guy named Jesus when I was a juvenile, seems to have
warped me outside of my own culture. When I was young, I always
figured people would grow up and out of the imbalanced competitive
spirits... oh well.

Hehe, the main reason I gave up on astronomy clubs about 30 years ago was
the terminal BS slung by the members and the non stop "one up-manship"
crud that goes on. From what I've seen at a couple of star parties here
in Oz it's not got any better, if anything it's probably got worse in the
past decade or so.

Oh no... since I am new, I simply have been assuming it would not be
this way. Do I get to be popular if I purchase a 32" Ritchey-Chretien
for my own custom installed backyard observatory? Good grief...

It's not a dead zone lol. Overhead targeting huh, have you considered a
right angle finder with amici prism?

I will look into it, I have never heard of this before. I hope it
gives a wide field of view so I can get my bearings without using my
line of sight. I suppose using a laser pointer is out of the question
because of safety concerns? Bummer, it would work so well...

I think I am going to readjust my finances a tad and just buy the 10"
Skyquest dobsonian and resolve my other concerns. I really am
interested at this point in magnifying objects (i.e. Mars) more and
capturing the classics clearly. Why get stuck at 352x or 480x when I
can just go to 600x if I sacrifice a few other things? Then I may not
wish to invest in other equipment for a while too.

Clear skies,
Ian

Peace to you too. Unfortunately, good seeing appears to be the largest
challenge in this hobby. Clouds, clouds, clouds... I think I get
perhaps 2 really good viewing days per month in Ocean County, New
Jersey. And five mediocre ones. The weather patterns we have been in
here are relentless and merciless. I am glad no one videotapes my many
vulgar diatribes as I curse Mother Nature when I miss celestial events
due to the weather.

I have a friend who lives in New Mexico, and another who lives on an
island off of the coast of British Columbia, Canada. Needless to say,
I will be coming to a couch near them at some time. I cannot imagine
looking up and seeing the Milky Way, I must have this experience.
Must, I tell you, I must.

I was using the binocs the other night, and being somewhat clueless I
looked up and thought I was looking at a section of Leo. No, it was
Cephius, the bright triangle of stars was deceptive for me. I was
struck by the density of stars in the field of view, I was thinking
this must be similar to what people speak of looking in Sagitarius.
In checking my charts later, I realized my error and that I was indeed
looking at an edge of the Milky Way. I am waiting to do so again, this
was a first for me. Probably because I recently moved here from a New
York City suburb in Northern New Jersey. The light pollution is surely
getting progressively worse... When I stayed up to count Leonids last
year at my old home, I only saw 128 in two hours, and perhaps four
fireballs.

- Livingston

You might also think about turning to the ATM field, while it took me 4 years to
gather together the needed parts from people on the Internets, I was able to put
together a nice F8 8inch dob which I named Babylon 8 and because I had a lot of
help with it, I ended up spending less than $100.00USD for all it's parts. My
case is not the norm, but if you do the work yourself, you might save some money
on your scope and you'll know it inside out too.

Starlords-ATM Page
http://starlords-atm.netfirms.com


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.Netfirms.com/
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

"Livingston" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:39:08 +0800, Ian W
wrote:


Yep there's a few of us g.

Cool, I have noted over the past few years that the group of people I
encounter on the internet appears to be thinning in the places I
visit.

Astronomy like most other hobbies has it's gear heads. I've just read the
FAQ and apart from a couple of minor errors (eg: Coma in Newtonians) it's
a pretty fair effort at disseminating the usual advise to the terminally
confused.

Of course, I agree, and surely I did not absorb every fact at the page
there was to learn. I just hate to see good folk annoyed by the
materialistic dweebs of the world. Maybe I should not have read the
stuff about that guy named Jesus when I was a juvenile, seems to have
warped me outside of my own culture. When I was young, I always
figured people would grow up and out of the imbalanced competitive
spirits... oh well.

Hehe, the main reason I gave up on astronomy clubs about 30 years ago was
the terminal BS slung by the members and the non stop "one up-manship"
crud that goes on. From what I've seen at a couple of star parties here
in Oz it's not got any better, if anything it's probably got worse in the
past decade or so.

Oh no... since I am new, I simply have been assuming it would not be
this way. Do I get to be popular if I purchase a 32" Ritchey-Chretien
for my own custom installed backyard observatory? Good grief...

It's not a dead zone lol. Overhead targeting huh, have you considered a
right angle finder with amici prism?

I will look into it, I have never heard of this before. I hope it
gives a wide field of view so I can get my bearings without using my
line of sight. I suppose using a laser pointer is out of the question
because of safety concerns? Bummer, it would work so well...

I think I am going to readjust my finances a tad and just buy the 10"
Skyquest dobsonian and resolve my other concerns. I really am
interested at this point in magnifying objects (i.e. Mars) more and
capturing the classics clearly. Why get stuck at 352x or 480x when I
can just go to 600x if I sacrifice a few other things? Then I may not
wish to invest in other equipment for a while too.

Clear skies,
Ian

Peace to you too. Unfortunately, good seeing appears to be the largest
challenge in this hobby. Clouds, clouds, clouds... I think I get
perhaps 2 really good viewing days per month in Ocean County, New
Jersey. And five mediocre ones. The weather patterns we have been in
here are relentless and merciless. I am glad no one videotapes my many
vulgar diatribes as I curse Mother Nature when I miss celestial events
due to the weather.

I have a friend who lives in New Mexico, and another who lives on an
island off of the coast of British Columbia, Canada. Needless to say,
I will be coming to a couch near them at some time. I cannot imagine
looking up and seeing the Milky Way, I must have this experience.
Must, I tell you, I must.

I was using the binocs the other night, and being somewhat clueless I
looked up and thought I was looking at a section of Leo. No, it was
Cephius, the bright triangle of stars was deceptive for me. I was
struck by the density of stars in the field of view, I was thinking
this must be similar to what people speak of looking in Sagitarius.
In checking my charts later, I realized my error and that I was indeed
looking at an edge of the Milky Way. I am waiting to do so again, this
was a first for me. Probably because I recently moved here from a New
York City suburb in Northern New Jersey. The light pollution is surely
getting progressively worse... When I stayed up to count Leonids last
year at my old home, I only saw 128 in two hours, and perhaps four
fireballs.

- Livingston

In article ,
says...

Cool, I have noted over the past few years that the group of people I
encounter on the internet appears to be thinning in the places I
visit.

It could be due to the fact that people sort of have their fill of the
net and then go back to life! vbg.

Astronomy like most other hobbies has it's gear heads. I've just read the

warped me outside of my own culture. When I was young, I always
figured people would grow up and out of the imbalanced competitive
spirits... oh well.

In my twisted view of life what I see is the web being used as one
gigantic brag book ... the number of websites that are little more than
'look at me and my toys' is astounding.

Hehe, the main reason I gave up on astronomy clubs about 30 years ago was
the terminal BS slung by the members and the non stop "one up-manship"
crud that goes on. From what I've seen at a couple of star parties here
in Oz it's not got any better, if anything it's probably got worse in the
past decade or so.

Oh no... since I am new, I simply have been assuming it would not be
this way. Do I get to be popular if I purchase a 32" Ritchey-Chretien
for my own custom installed backyard observatory? Good grief...

Hell yes! If you own a 32" anything you'll be a big cheese.

It's not a dead zone lol. Overhead targeting huh, have you considered a
right angle finder with amici prism?

I will look into it, I have never heard of this before. I hope it
gives a wide field of view so I can get my bearings without using my
line of sight. I suppose using a laser pointer is out of the question
because of safety concerns? Bummer, it would work so well...

University Optics make one sweet Amici prism'd 8x50 viewfinder. It's
field of view is around 8 degrees which is ideal for general locating of
objects and for serious star hopping. The page with the finders is as
follows www.universityoptics.com/acc.htm Price is around 180 USD. Your
other alternative is something like a Telrad, a device that projects a
red dot on to the area of sky being viewed. It's a 'unit' finder and has
no magnification. A lot of amateurs swear by them.

I think I am going to readjust my finances a tad and just buy the 10"
Skyquest dobsonian and resolve my other concerns. I really am
interested at this point in magnifying objects (i.e. Mars) more and
capturing the classics clearly. Why get stuck at 352x or 480x when I
can just go to 600x if I sacrifice a few other things? Then I may not
wish to invest in other equipment for a while too.

I know plenty of amateurs who've never gone over 6" mirror size and have
spent their life observing. Really high power observing such as 600x
with a 10" really requires an equatorial mount or a dob on one of those
equatoral type platforms, as the planets transit time across the
eyepieces field of view is extremely short, with times of a few seconds
being normal at 600x. I find my best views of the inferior planets at
around 250-300x as most nights the seeing just isn't good enough.

Peace to you too. Unfortunately, good seeing appears to be the largest
challenge in this hobby. Clouds, clouds, clouds... I think I get
perhaps 2 really good viewing days per month in Ocean County, New
Jersey. And five mediocre ones. The weather patterns we have been in
here are relentless and merciless. I am glad no one videotapes my many
vulgar diatribes as I curse Mother Nature when I miss celestial events
due to the weather.

Be glad you don't live on the south western side of Austalia. The winter
(right now for us antipodeans) is cloud and more cloud for 13 out of 14
days for a few months. In the past 3 weeks I've had all of 2 nights
observing, 'nuff said!

I have a friend who lives in New Mexico, and another who lives on an
island off of the coast of British Columbia, Canada. Needless to say,
I will be coming to a couch near them at some time. I cannot imagine
looking up and seeing the Milky Way, I must have this experience.
Must, I tell you, I must.

I get it from my dark site, which is all of about 50 minutes drive from
the city. Perth being a small joint of under 1.4 million people means I
don't have to drive far to get to really dark skies.

I was using the binocs the other night, and being somewhat clueless I
looked up and thought I was looking at a section of Leo. No, it was
Cephius, the bright triangle of stars was deceptive for me. I was
struck by the density of stars in the field of view, I was thinking
this must be similar to what people speak of looking in Sagitarius.
In checking my charts later, I realized my error and that I was indeed
looking at an edge of the Milky Way. I am waiting to do so again, this
was a first for me. Probably because I recently moved here from a New
York City suburb in Northern New Jersey. The light pollution is surely
getting progressively worse... When I stayed up to count Leonids last
year at my old home, I only saw 128 in two hours, and perhaps four
fireballs.

I know what you mean, I keep pretty detailed records of limiting visual
magnitude at my suburban location here in the central north part of Perth
and it's deteriated noticably in the past 5 years. It's nowhere near as
bad as what you'd experience though. The Leonids here were a real fizzer,
hardly any show last year and through broken clouds I saw all of 16 over
a 3 hour period. Unlike 2000 where from 500km north of where I live I
got a real treat. Like most meteor showers the Northern Hemisphere tends
to get a better 'show'.

Oh well it's time to do the work thing ...

Ian
--
If I have seen further it is because I stood on the shoulders of Giants -
Issac Netwon.

The only input I have is that Orion makes a really nice 9X50 right-angle
finder that fits right on most Orion scopes. I put one on my newtonian dob
and I love it. Under $80 (US) if I remember right.

I could never use a straight-through finder with my back. (Well I COULD, but
not for long....).

Cheers.
--
Dan Braasch
___________________________________________
"Livingston" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have been observing for some odd two years now.
I have bought my equipment small and cheap up until now.
I have an Orion 70mm refractor, a pair of 12x50 Scenex binocs,
and just got a pair of Celestron Skymaster 15x70 binocs. The
Celestrons are being serviced right now, they came out of alignment
and produced double images.

Thing is, I am ready to move up. I want to be able to magnify what I
have observed more, and would also like to go deeper. Seeing m13 as a
faint fuzzball and only detecting the inner most portion of the
Andromeda galaxy is a real drag.

I am satisfied with the binocs, it is cool over time your hands learn
to steady themselves. The telescope though... I tell you. I feel like
a gymnast sometimes with the positions I must get into to aim that
thing. I am 6' tall, so the activity of trying to target any object
over my head where observing is best is just plain impossible.
I got fed up trying to target the Andromeda galaxy the other night.

I have no interest in auto finding systems. I want to learn the sky.
Auto drive might be nice, but appears costly. It is easy enough to tap
the scope with my fingers, and this has a certain earthy feel to it.
I enjoy the work.

I figure I should go for a dobsonian, and have honed in on the Orion
Skyquests. I have a number of questions though. It really is a choice
between the 6", the 8", and the 10". I could have the 6" right now,
or I could wait and save for the larger sizes. What has been your
experiences? Will I find great limitations with the 6" in terms of
light gathering power? I am drawn to the 8" really. How is nebula
observing with the 6"? Something I have never done yet, I mean I have
yet to see much more of the Orion Nebula than just the wispy cloud
like haze surrounding the sword star of Orion, and I do believe I have
read the Orion Nebula actually covers an area 6 times the size of the
Moon in the sky. I suppose I have read all Messier objects can be seen
with 7x50 binocs, but c'mon, the Owl Nebula in those? Please. How
would the Messier list be with a 6"? I assume it would work well.

In addition, once again I see a finder scope design that looks like it
will keep me exercising all through the evening to target objects over
my head. What options are there to avoid this? I tell you what I would
really like, a laser pointer for a targeter, but I assume that would
be illegal because of the minute infinitesimal risk to pilots
overhead. How do experienced observers solve this dilemma?

Also, for those who have used a Skyquest, is it easy to move as
objects slowly rotate? Does it stay on target until you decide to tap
and move it?

How about a fine focus? You see, on my 70mm refractor, the whole thing
gets going vibrating when I focus, so I am forced to feel where the
sweet spot is with broad sweeps and then try to hit this spot.
Needless to say, I always get close, yet when observing Mars recently
I pump the thing way beyond it's limit to 232x sometimes. If I could
get that sweet spot, it would not be all that bad an observing
experience, but it is hard to do.

Also, I see Orion recommends a laser collimater for the 8" and up, but
not for the 6". Any idea why? Does it go out of alignment less? Is
doing this job with the included cap easy enough for those with some
mechanical ability? Or, should you get the laser tool?

So, feedback? Advice?

- Livingston

It seemed like a good idea to me, I bought the Orion 6 x 30 right
angle finder scope last evening. Figured a newbie like me should have
as wide a field of view as possible. 7 degrees versus 5 for the model
you mention.

Thanks.

- Livingston


On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:38:31 -0500, "Scutter"
wrote:

The only input I have is that Orion makes a really nice 9X50 right-angle
finder that fits right on most Orion scopes. I put one on my newtonian dob
and I love it. Under $80 (US) if I remember right.

I could never use a straight-through finder with my back. (Well I COULD, but
not for long....).

Cheers.

That would appear to take a lot of know-how I do not have.

To tell you the truth, after reading this:

http://home.earthlink.net/~flyj/mccluneytext.html

on collimation, I will probably just have it done for me
professionally. I am somewhat mechanically inclined,
but I would think the margin for error here is quite small.

Thanks. I bought the Skyquest 8" Dobsonian and compromised.

- Livingston


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:45:12 -0700, "Starlord"
wrote:

You might also think about turning to the ATM field, while it took me 4 years to
gather together the needed parts from people on the Internets, I was able to put
together a nice F8 8inch dob which I named Babylon 8 and because I had a lot of
help with it, I ended up spending less than $100.00USD for all it's parts. My
case is not the norm, but if you do the work yourself, you might save some money
on your scope and you'll know it inside out too.

Starlords-ATM Page
http://starlords-atm.netfirms.com

Hell yes! If you own a 32" anything you'll be a big cheese.

Oh, goody... [frown] Bah humbug. If I ever do have $100,000 to spend
on my hobby, perhaps... I will befriend the kind, be they meek or
equiped with expensive equipment.

Here, drool:

RC Optical Systems
http://www.rcopticalsystems.com/

http://www.rcopticalsystems.com/32inch.html

They have a nice gallery too. I believe I read somewheres the 32" goes
for someodd $99,990.

I ended up buying the 8" Skyquest Dobsonian. With a 5mm and a 40mm
wide view eyepiece pair to complement what I already have. Along with
a 6 x 30 right angle finder scope and a planesphere. All for a modest
$670.

I hope to be wowed after two years of observing with low power
equipment.

University Optics make one sweet Amici prism'd 8x50 viewfinder. It's
field of view is around 8 degrees which is ideal for general locating of
objects and for serious star hopping. The page with the finders is as
follows www.universityoptics.com/acc.htm Price is around 180 USD. Your
other alternative is something like a Telrad, a device that projects a
red dot on to the area of sky being viewed. It's a 'unit' finder and has
no magnification. A lot of amateurs swear by them.

The Orion 6x30 I purchased was $49.95.

Since my current finder has a big fat crosshairs in the view, I fail
to see how a laser dot would help me much. I was wondering if the
finder actually casts the dot on the sky itself, but I figured that
would be impossible to do without working just like a regular laser
pointer, i.e. illegal. The Orion page shows the view looking through
the finder scope, and made no mention of it casting a pointer dot.

Be glad you don't live on the south western side of Austalia. The winter
(right now for us antipodeans) is cloud and more cloud for 13 out of 14
days for a few months. In the past 3 weeks I've had all of 2 nights
observing, 'nuff said!

Here, right now, as we enter August and Mars approaches, we have seven
straight days of clouds and rain forecast.

I am getting irritated...

I get it from my dark site, which is all of about 50 minutes drive from
the city. Perth being a small joint of under 1.4 million people means I
don't have to drive far to get to really dark skies.

I need to find a good dark site near me. Just moved here, I will do so
soon.

Thanks.

- Livingston