Why No Transmissions From Space ?

Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

wrote on 3/05/2021 7:53 am:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are so
bloody far away!!

But the first signals from the "infinite number of planets with
intelligent species" might arrive here next week!
--
Daniel

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are so
bloody far away!!


Probably the reason, but my understanding is that signals could reach
us and be detected from stars, certainly in our vacinity of the
galaxy.


But the first signals from the "infinite number of planets with
intelligent species" might arrive here next week!


Indeed.

On 3/05/2021 4:38 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
wrote on 3/05/2021 7:53 am:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
Â* never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are so
bloody far away!!

But the first signals from the "infinite number of planets with
intelligent species" might arrive here next week!


Perhaps we've had millions of signals pass by, but they happened
millions of yrs ago?

Let's say a technologically advanced society has the capability to
transmit radio waves for 1,000 yrs before either wiping themselves out
or evolving to a different form of communication we haven't yet
discovered. The universe is about 13 bil yrs old (prob infinite imo, I
don't really buy this 13 bil yr theory), so 1,000 yrs is 0.000007% of
it's life span. That's like a 4 hour period in the life of a human that
lives to 70. It's like a guy is in a coma his whole life til age 70,
except for one brief 4 hour period where he is alert. If you miss that
4 hours in 70 yrs you'd think he was never alert.

Whisper wrote on 3/5/21 11:36 pm:
On 3/05/2021 4:38 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
wrote on 3/05/2021 7:53 am:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
Â* never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are
so bloody far away!!

But the first signals from the "infinite number of planets with
intelligent species" might arrive here next week! ;-P

Perhaps we've had millions of signals pass by, but they happened
millions of yrs ago?

Let's say a technologically advanced society has the capability to
transmit radio waves for 1,000 yrs before either wiping themselves out
or evolving to a different form of communication we haven't yet
discovered.Â* The universe is about 13 bil yrs old (prob infinite imo, I
don't really buy this 13 bil yr theory), so 1,000 yrs is 0.000007% of
it's life span.Â* That's like a 4 hour period in the life of a human that
lives to 70.Â* It's like a guy is in a coma his whole life til age 70,
except for one brief 4 hour period where he is alert.Â* If you miss that
4 hours in 70 yrs you'd think he was never alert.

Yeap .... and the amount of Power required for any signal to traverse
the huge distances would also be very substantial!!

Just look at how much energy The Sun uses ... and we receive a minuscule
amount!
--
Daniel

Daniel65 wrote:
wrote on 3/05/2021 7:53 am:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are so
bloody far away!!
.....

If there are no other intelligent species in the observable universe
it only ups the probability we are living in a simulation.
Years back the odds of being in a simulation were put around 1 in 3
because it would be just so damn useful to someone to study a toy
universe.

Recnetly I see the odds have been upped by some cosmologists to
99 in 100 because it's argued creating 1000s of simulated universes
would just be so damn interesting for humans in millions of years so
they could study their origins.

Leaving out extraneous things like contact with ET's in the 21st century
would obviously be a big saving in simulation code.
If the programmers needed to check how 21st century humanity would
react from alient contact they could just hack something in --
make ET's mysteriously appear from time to time in random places
in random configurations with no obvious rhyme or reason.
They would probably figure that given the known psychology of the time
it would be ignored, just like all the WOW signals.

Perhsonally I'm starting to lean to the other classic philosophy
trope of us all being brains in bottles. Relativity almost imposes
a static Bloch universe and the only way something can change is
if it takes place outside the physical universe in some "super space".
That kind of thing explains all kinds of weird sh*t people keep seeing
or have been thinking about for centuries (e.g. transmigration of souls).

It would also explain a lot of USENET. Bceause obviously in a matrix many
of the charavcters can be filled out by simple AI robots that behanve
almost randomly and don't need to learn to adapt to new conditions,
just run through a list of hard-wired reactions.

--
[Why Dont I see Any Smoke Signals?]

One day Wise Woman went to Chief and told him there seemed to
be other people in the Forest.
She told him many days away she found strange marks in the ground and
also strange footprints.
They were similar to human footprints but had only one huge toe that
seemed to be scarred with many deep wounds. It seemed the Others must be
much taller than any of the People. But they seemed to command fire
so they must be human.
"Ridiculous", said Chief.
It was known for many generations the Spirits created 5 men and 5
women long ago. Those people had children and after many generations there
were almost 100 People. There were no Others.
Chief decided to climb to the top of the tallest tree in the
Forest and call to these "other humans".
Alone of all the animals humans had the power of Words.
For many days Chief climbed the tallest tree and called and called
to the Others.
There was no answer.
Chief told Wise Woman about his test.
If there were Others, why did they never answer?
There could be many reasons, said Wise Woman.
Maybe the Others were asleep.
Maybe they were stalking game and had to be quiet.
Or maybe their custom was not to talk to anyone they didn't know by name.
"Rubbish", said Chief.
He thought about another test. Alone of all animals in the Forest
people had mastery of Fire.
Chief went to a clearing and lit a big fire.
He threw wet leaves and branches on the fire until a huge pall of
dark smoke hung over the clearing.
He kept the fire smoking for many days and then climbed the tallest
tree in the Forest and looked in every direction.
There was no answering smoke anywhere.
The other people did not exist!
He had proved it 2 ways now!!

On 5/2/2021 2:53 PM, wrote:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the only "radio transmissions" that we would
be able to detect and observe would be ones that
are extremely powerful and wasteful.

We used to have some very primitive and powerful
radio stations like that described below (500,000 watts).
But now 50,000 is the maximum allowed, and few
use that. With cable and satellites we do not need
to broadcast out such strong signals.



from
https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/...e-and-only-sup

"For a Brief Time in the 1930s, Radio Station WLW in Ohio Became
America’s One and Only “Super Station�
Katy June-Friesen
HUMANITIES, May/June 2015, Volume 36, Number 3

Facebook
When President Franklin Roosevelt, sitting in the White House, pushed a
ceremonial button on his desk in May 1934, a five hundred thousand-watt
(500 kW) behemoth stirred in a field outside Cincinnati. Rows of
five-foot glass tubes warmed. Water flowed around them at more than six
hundred gallons per minute. Dozens of engineers lit filaments and
flipped switches, and, within the hour, enough power to supply a town of
one hundred thousand coursed through an 831-foot tower.

Thus began WLW’s five-year, twenty-four-hour-a-day experiment: a radio
station that used more power and transmitted more miles than any station
in the United States had or would. The so-called super station—licensed
by the new Federal Communications Commission (FCC) on a temporary
basis—amped up the debate among broadcasters, government regulators, and
listeners about how radio should be delivered to serve the “public
interest,� a mandate laid out in the Radio Act of 1927, and influenced
legal, programming, and technical decisions that shape the broadcast
system we know today.

Rural Electrification poster, 1937, showing a black house on a red hill
with a blue background, connected to the word "radio" with white
linesPhoto caption
A 1937 poster by Lester Beall for the Rural Electrification Project, the
New Deal project that connected rural Americans to the electrical grid.

Digital Image © The Museum of Modern Art / Licensed by SCALA / Art
Resource, NY

Since radio’s beginnings in the early 1920s, industry and government
leaders promoted it as the great homogenizer, a cultural uplift project
that could, among other things, help modernize and acculturate rural
areas. The challenge was how to reach these areas, many of which
received few or no radio signals in the mid-1930s. One solution was
high-powered, clear-channel stations that could blanket large swaths of
the country with a strong signal. These stations operated on “cleared�
frequencies that the government assigned to only one station to prevent
interference.

WLW had operated on one of forty designated clear channels since 1928.
The station’s creator and owner, an entrepreneur, inventor, and
manufacturer named Powel Crosley Jr. frequently increased the station’s
wattage as technology and regulation allowed. In 1934, when WLW
increased its power from 50 kW to 500 kW, all other clear-channel
stations were operating at 50 kW or less. Now, WLW had the ability to
reach most of the country, especially at night, when AM radio waves
interact differently with the earth’s ionosphere and become “skywaves.�
People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than
they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped
rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign
near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW
through their barbed-wire fences.

In the early days of broadcast development and regulation, Crosley and
WLW sparked debate about what radio should and could be. Could a few
clear-channel stations adequately serve—and acculturate—entire regions
of listeners? Or would a national network system with local affiliates
better target listener needs and interests?

Of course, for most broadcasters and regulators debating these broad
delivery systems, “listeners� meant Americans who were white and middle
or working class. Programming reinforced presumed middle class values.
While some local stations offered programming targeted to ethnic groups,
occupations, and even political beliefs, black Americans and other
minority groups were largely left out of national radio, except as
caricatures—usually played by white people—in comedy programs.

WLW began in 1921 on a wooden bread board. “One day my son visited a
friend, and came home with glowing descriptions of a new ‘wireless’
outfit,� Crosley told a magazine in 1948. He agreed to buy his
nine-year-old a radio, but when he discovered that sets ran upward of
$100, Crosley said he decided to buy instructions and build his own.
Amateurs at the time used bread boards as a platform for wires, tubes,
and other components of low-cost crystal radio sets. The more expensive,
preassembled radios used vacuum tubes and required battery power and had
better reception. With plenty of money in the bank from his
manufacturing business, Crosley—a curious, driven man whose employees
alternately described him as aloof and “one of the boys�—could have
afforded the $100 radio. Instead, he took the chance to learn about the
new radio technology, firsthand. As always, he was thinking about how he
could make it better.

Disappointed with the few, poor-quality program offerings his radio set
pulled in, Crosley ordered a twenty-watt transmitter and started an
amateur station in the living room of his Cincinnati mansion. “Before I
knew it,� he later recalled, “I had virtually forgotten my regular
business in my intense interest in radio.� He had made several failed
attempts to produce a new automobile, but his regular business at the
time—a mail-order auto accessories business, for which he designed
gadgets—grossed more than $1 million annually. Crosley’s company also
made furniture, including phonograph cabinets. “He knew manufacturing,
and he saw radio as the new hot thing,� says Chuck Howell, head of the
University of Maryland’s Special Collections in Mass Media and Culture,
which houses recordings, photos, documents, and objects related to WLW.

Crosley’s instincts were right—in 1922, there were 60,000 radio sets in
use in the United States; one year later, there were 1.5 million. By
1935, two thirds of all homes in the country had one.

Crosley played a big role in this surge. He was the first person to
figure out how raw radio components could look better than a nest of
wires, Howell says. His manufacturing facilities included a wood-working
plant, so he hired a couple of University of Cincinnati engineering
students and incorporated mass production techniques Ã* la Henry Ford to
pump out a $20 crystal radio set called the Harko—a small wooden box
with dials on the front, affordable for the masses. A little more than a
year after he wired his first breadboard, Crosley Manufacturing
Corporation—soon to be renamed Crosley Radio Corporation—was the world’s
largest maker of radio sets and parts. The company made little money at
first, but by 1928 Crosley’s profit was more than $3.6 million.

Crosley Dynamic Bakelite Radio in whitePhoto caption
A vintage Crosley “Dynamic� Bakelite Radio, circa 1951.

Wikimedia Commons

But radios needed programming. More importantly, Crosley’s cheaper, less
sensitive radios needed programming with a strong signal. The Department
of Commerce, which regulated radio at the time, awarded him a license in
1922 to operate a commercial radio station with the call letters WLW
that was based at his Cincinnati manufacturing plant. This allowed
Crosley to increase the station’s power from 20 to 50 watts. In 1923,
the government cleared Crosley to broadcast at 500 watts. That’s meager
by today’s standards, but it was ten times the power most stations were
using at the time.

From there it was full speed ahead for the ambitious industrialist, who
kept out of the public eye, but was known to do business deals at family
weddings. He sought more and more wattage for WLW, so that market
reports, weather, recorded music, and variety shows would reach more
people. He moved the transmitter to a remote location—the first time a
station and transmitter had not occupied the same space. When the new
Federal Radio Commission reorganized the crowded broadcasting spectrum
in 1927, WLW was assigned the “cleared� 700 kHz frequency. The next
year, the FRC green-lighted WLW to broadcast at 50 kilowatts from Mason,
Ohio, about twenty-five miles north of Cincinnati. As one of the first
stations to regularly broadcast at this level of power—the same maximum
allowed for AM stations today—WLW began calling itself “The Nation’s
Station.�

When Crosley applied for a license to experiment with 500 kW in 1932,
regulators and the broadcasting industry thought WLW might pave the way
for a series of clear-channel mega-stations that could provide better
service to more people. Crosley hired RCA, GE, and Westinghouse to build
a first-of-its-kind, $500,000 transmitter system that filled several
buildings and included a 3,600-square-foot outdoor cooling pond. WLW was
initially allowed to test high power between 1 a.m. and 6 a.m., and, in
May 1934, the station began broadcasting with 500 kW around the clock.

From the 1930s to the 1950s, the nation’s clear channels dominated the
radio world. All were owned by or affiliated with the rapidly expanding
national networks. Because they brought in the most advertising revenue,
clear-channel stations could produce higher-quality and more original
content. The most popular programs and radio stars came from
clear-channel stations.

During its super-powerful period, WLW carried programs from the NBC Red
and NBC Blue networks, as well as a few from CBS. The station also
helped start the Mutual Broadcasting System, through which clear-channel
stations shared popular programming—such as WXYZ Detroit’s The Lone
Ranger and WGN Chicago’s Lum and Abner—with cooperating stations across
the country. In 1935, the Mutual Broadcasting System carried the first
nighttime major-league baseball game, with WLW rising star Red Barber
announcing. In 1937, after leaving the Mutual Broadcasting System, WLW
started its own experimental network called the WLW Line, which gave WLW
a direct line to advertising’s epicenter through WHN in New York.

WLW helped launch the careers of many radio stars, including Ma Perkins,
Andy Williams, Rosemary and Betty Clooney, Red Skelton, and Fats Waller.
The station was known for its hillbilly (later known as country) music
and “barn dance� programs such as Midwestern Hayride. In the late 1930s,
perhaps to emphasize its reach to rural listeners to the FCC, WLW added
more agricultural programming and even started an on-site, station-owned
farm. Crosley made it easy for owners of his radios to find this
programming—his sets had “WLW� marked on the dial.

Other clear channel stations assumed they would soon get the go-ahead
for higher power, and they fought to keep their frequencies from being
duplicated elsewhere in the country. In the end, however, WLW’s
power—both economic and sonic—would be the downfall of the super-powered
experiment.

Shoulders-up photo of Powel Crosley, wearing a suit and pocket
squarePhoto caption
Powel Crosley began broadcasting from the living room of his mansion in
Cincinnati, Ohio

The Donald V. West Broadcasting and Cable Photo Archive, Special
Collections in Mass Media and Culture, University of Maryland Libraries

Stations far from Cincinnati but close to WLW on the frequency dial
started complaining that WLW was interfering with their signals.
(Although WLW had its own cleared frequency, its signal could still
cause problems for closely adjacent channels of stations located
hundreds of miles away. At the time of their frequency assignments,
these stations would not have been powerful enough to broadcast across
the same region.) WLW had to build a directional antenna system to
reduce its signal strength toward a Toronto, Canada, station. WOR in
Newark, New Jersey, which operated at 710 kHz, worried this would
intensify WLW’s signal on the East Coast.

WLW continued to operate at 500 kW on temporary authority, renewable
every six months, and, in 1936, the Federal Communications Commission
began hearings on whether to allow stations to permanently operate at
that wattage. In preparation for the hearings, the FCC conducted a
survey of rural residents, the population for whom clear channels were
thought to be the most beneficial. Respondents in thirteen states rated
WLW as their top preferred station.

After the first round of FCC hearings, fifteen more stations applied to
use 500 kW. Some had already started building facilities and new
transmitters. However, regulators and non-clear-channel broadcasters
were beginning to think this was too much power. In 1938, the Senate
passed a resolution recommending that the FCC cap station power at 50 kW
and voiced concern that superpower stations could deprive smaller
stations of network affiliations and national ad revenue. Local and
regional stations, who produced more locally focused programs,
complained that WLW was encroaching on their ability to sell on-air
spots, which was essential to their survival. The head of a group
representing local stations without network affiliation told the FCC
that “the local station has been in the position of Lazarus, dependent
upon the crumbs from the table of Dives.�

Concern that clear channels and networks would monopolize the airwaves
continued to mount. Roosevelt, who at the dedication of WLW’s superpower
experiment said he was certain WLW would provide “a service managed and
conducted for the greater good of all,� was having second thoughts. “The
debate over clear channels was the first significant intra-industry
dispute in AM radio,� writes media historian James C. Foust in the book
Big Voices of the Air: The Battle over Clear Channel Radio. “Until at
least the mid-1940s it was arguably the most important regulatory matter
before the FRC and FCC, its inherent importance amplified by the
intricate relationship it had to many of the radio industry’s other
regulatory debates.�

Several years into the FCC hearings, New Jersey’s WOR sued WLW for
allegedly interfering with its broadcasts. To prove that WLW was not
interfering with other stations’ ability to operate, Crosley sent a team
of engineers to the eastern seaboard to measure signal strength and
record broadcasts. In a 2006 interview with a University of Maryland
archivist, former WLW engineer Bill Alberts recalled the two trips,
which took him from Cincinnati to Maine and south to Florida. “What we’d
do was drive fifty to a hundred miles along the route, stop, and stay
for one or two or three nights—the measurements were made at night . . .
because that was skywave time,� he said.

“That was the time that WOR was claiming interference.� The engineers
traveled in a car with an antenna attached to the roof and a WLW decal
on the side. Alberts says that over two years, they concluded that WOR’s
claims were baseless, and, in some cases, WOR was actually interfering
with WLW.

In the end, it didn’t matter. In 1939, despite WLW’s extensive testimony
before the FCC and its insistence that cutting its power would cut
service to people who otherwise had none, regulators decided not to
renew WLW’s authority to broadcast at 500 kW. The station had to roll
its power back to 50 kW, which is still the maximum wattage allowed
today for AM clear-channel stations. The Crosley Corporation eventually
appealed to the Supreme Court but was denied.

WLW continued its programming schedule, but with its power downgraded to
ordinary levels, Crosley lost interest. His radios no longer dominated
the market, and he’d been manufacturing new inventions, such as the
Shelvador, the first refrigerator with shelves inside. His catalog of
products would come to include Koolrest, a bed cooler and air
conditioner; Go-Bi-Bi, a baby car-tricycle hybrid; and X-er-vac, a scalp
massager that claimed to stimulate hair growth. But his true love was
always cars, and after World War II—flush with capital from making
products for the war effort—Crosley sold WLW and the Crosley Corporation
to focus on Crosley Motors. He created a midget, European-sized car with
an innovative lightweight engine made of sheet metal. Priced under $900,
“The Crosley� got fifty miles per gallon and was no frills— initially,
it had no upholstery. But Crosley sold only about fifty-thousand
vehicles, and his plant shut down in 1952.

Crosley sold his failing auto company and retired from manufacturing,
traveling between his various homes and with his Cincinnati Reds. He
died of a heart attack in 1961 at the age of seventy-four. WLW continues
to broadcast at 50 kW on the AM band. The station’s once groundbreaking
transmitter is long retired but preserved, on-site, beside its modern
counterpart. WLW still reaches the airwaves via the giant antenna
Crosley installed in the 1930s.

About the author
Katy June-Friesen is a writer in Washington, D.C. Her website is
www.katyjunefriesen.com.

Funding information
An NEH grant of $700,000 was awarded to aid in the preservation of
collections in the R. Lee Hornbake Library at the University of
Maryland–College Park. The Library of American Broadcasting and the
National Public Broadcasting Archives are part of the library’s
collections and were used in the writing of this article.

Robert Riggs's "July 4 at Coney Island"
Article appears in
HUMANITIES
May/June 2015
Volume 36
Issue 3
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R Kym Horsell wrote on 4/5/21 8:26 pm:
Daniel65 wrote:
wrote on 3/05/2021 7:53 am:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

Because the "infinite number of planets with intelligent species" are so
bloody far away!!
....

If there are no other intelligent species in the observable universe
it only ups the probability we are living in a simulation.
Years back the odds of being in a simulation were put around 1 in 3
because it would be just so damn useful to someone to study a toy
universe.

Recnetly I see the odds have been upped by some cosmologists to
99 in 100 because it's argued creating 1000s of simulated universes
would just be so damn interesting for humans in millions of years so
they could study their origins.

Leaving out extraneous things like contact with ET's in the 21st century
would obviously be a big saving in simulation code.
If the programmers needed to check how 21st century humanity would
react from alient contact they could just hack something in --
make ET's mysteriously appear from time to time in random places
in random configurations with no obvious rhyme or reason.

Gee Whiz!! I thought random peoples had randomly been reporting contact
with random ET's through the years in random places!! l-P
--
Daniel

This is stupid. There are transmissions. Or did you not
understand the dilemma with the film contact..

They were transmitting from another planet.

https://public.nrao.edu/blogs/interf...a-busy-planet/
This has been known since the 1930s. No signals, thats BS.

and there is more than just this one page on it.


On 5/2/2021 2:53 PM, scribbled:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !

http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/

https://public.nrao.edu/ask/recordin...of-the-zodiac/

On 5/2/2021 2:53 PM, scribbled:
Universe is obviusly infinite, so even if a very low probability,
there is likely an infinite number of planets with intelligent
species, who should have radio transmissions, YET we apparently
never receive anything. WHY ? !