female amateur astronomers

I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

I also live in a very urban area and can't see anything in the night
sky unless I drive out for at least an hour and a half to the
mountains or the desert. My husband, although very supportive of my
love of astronomy, does not like it when I want to drive out alone to
some remote location (and usually those places have no cellphone
reception). He tries to go with me most of the time but can't
accompany me every time I want to go (which is all the time). He does
not want to hold me back from pursuing this hobby, and I recognize
that he has reason to worry about my heading out to the mountains
alone. I try to always take someone with me, which requires that I
can't leave when I want, or stay as long as I want. It also means I
can only go when I have someone to go with me, which means my
enjoyment of astronomy depends on my ability to secure a chaperone for
the night. I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

I also tried to make friends with people in local astronomy clubs.
Perhaps I should give this some time. I don't have too many friends
who share this interest as passionately as I do, and it's quite
difficult to find someone among my existing friends who are willing to
accompany me on these field trips. It takes time to get to know new
people, and it takes a longer amount of time for one's spouse to get
to know people well enough to feel comfortable enough to not worry
about my hanging out with them in a dark remote location until the wee
hours of the night.

Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug? My husband
is not the overly-protective type, and he hardly ever holds me back
from pursuing various interests, and he personally dislikes having to
have me adhere to certain conditions in order to head out for a
viewing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or insights anyone might have about
this issue.

"Jeana" wrote in message
om...
I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

This just goes to show that telescope dealers are not too much different
than automobile dealers. However, in defense of the dealer, I would like to
remind you that a woman deeply involved with astronomy is sort of rare. Of
course there must be a fair measure of women, but I personally have not seen
many. I can't remember seeing one woman at a star party who was not there
because her husband or boyfriend didn't her. I'm talking about a lady who
lugged her own telescope to the star party, set it up herself and remained
until the first hint of sunlight.

I also live in a very urban area and can't see anything in the night
sky unless I drive out for at least an hour and a half to the
mountains or the desert. My husband, although very supportive of my
love of astronomy, does not like it when I want to drive out alone to
some remote location (and usually those places have no cellphone
reception). He tries to go with me most of the time but can't
accompany me every time I want to go (which is all the time). He does
not want to hold me back from pursuing this hobby, and I recognize
that he has reason to worry about my heading out to the mountains
alone.

I really can't blame your husband for being protective and I'm sure that not
too many others can. On the other hand I understand how you feel, in that
you can't expect him to go with you everytime you feel like taking a peek.
Why don't you join an astronomy club, from which you can make a few friends
who will go viewing with you when your husband can't tag along?


I try to always take someone with me, which requires that I
can't leave when I want, or stay as long as I want. It also means I
can only go when I have someone to go with me, which means my
enjoyment of astronomy depends on my ability to secure a chaperone for
the night. I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

So life is often stifling, and now and then one comes to a brick wall that
you have to go around. I also have some problems, as my wife is not nearly
as accommodating as your husband.



I also tried to make friends with people in local astronomy clubs.
Perhaps I should give this some time. I don't have too many friends
who share this interest as passionately as I do, and it's quite
difficult to find someone among my existing friends who are willing to
accompany me on these field trips. It takes time to get to know new
people, and it takes a longer amount of time for one's spouse to get
to know people well enough to feel comfortable enough to not worry
about my hanging out with them in a dark remote location until the wee
hours of the night.

Keep working on the people from the astronomy club and forget your friends
who are not interested in astronomy. When you've found some peope in the
club with whom you feel comfortable, invite them to your house for coffee or
drinks to give your husband an opportunity to get acquainted.

Al





Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug? My husband
is not the overly-protective type, and he hardly ever holds me back
from pursuing various interests, and he personally dislikes having to
have me adhere to certain conditions in order to head out for a
viewing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or insights anyone might have about
this issue.

"Jeana" wrote in message
om...
I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."


That's the damndest thing for discriminating "customer service" I ever
heard. I bet if you search out your local astronomy club or RASC if your in
Canada, you will run into lots of females who take up the activity. In your
case, because of the travelling required, this is a must. You might also
consider looking into star parties.

Jeana wrote:
I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.

CLIP
idiots are everywhere.

CLIP
I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone.

I suspect you are safer in a "dark remote location alone" than on your
neighborhood corner, after dark, if it's as urbanized as you say. But
it'd be hard to sale that idea.

Get a medium-large dog to accompany you (no miniture toy dags - some
breed the size of a coyote.) Dogs love to go sky watching with you, and
will stay nearby because you are their pack leader; they both add to
your safety and more important, to your perception of safety. Plus they
have other uses in guarding the house during the day when everybody's
gone to work.

"Al" wrote in message
. ..


This just goes to show that telescope dealers are not too much different
than automobile dealers. However, in defense of the dealer, I would like
to
remind you that a woman deeply involved with astronomy is sort of rare.
Of
course there must be a fair measure of women, but I personally have not
seen
many. I can't remember seeing one woman at a star party who was not there
because her husband or boyfriend didn't her. I'm talking about a lady who
lugged her own telescope to the star party, set it up herself and remained
until the first hint of sunlight.


There are a few out there, Al. We have a couple in our small club (about
40-50 members). At least one hauls here Televue refractor out to the
Mid-Atlantic Star Party every year and camps for at least a couple of days.
Women certainly seem to be a minority in the hobby. Interestingly enough,
the two club members we've had who were also Astronomy PhD students, were
both women. Maybe women are more common among the pro ranks?

Ray

Get a medium-large dog to accompany you (no miniture toy dags - some
breed the size of a coyote.) Dogs love to go sky watching with you, and
will stay nearby because you are their pack leader; they both add to
your safety and more important, to your perception of safety. Plus they
have other uses in guarding the house during the day when everybody's
gone to work.

Correct,

I go to the boonies quite often to view the heavens with my SCT. I
always bring my Lab/Collie mix who is a great watch/guard dog.
However, I never forget to keep Gaston Glock on my side the entire
time. Buy a gun, learn how to use it.

Oddly enough, the professional ranks include a lot more women, increasing at
a faster rate than the amateurs.

I used to play chess and found the same ratio there --- ie a woman chess
player was considered an oddity, especially if she was any good. That is
slowly improving. But you may find a better welcome at the local astro
clubs, especially after you have been there a while. Unfortunately, women
like you are still having to prepare the way for others who follow. Still,
most people in a club will get over it quickly and realize you are just
another star nut. Many of the clubs own a dark site, sometimes with a lock
over the gate. Either that, or they have a favorite dark gathering site
where people head to each weekend. That would give you and your husband the
assurance that you are with a group of other observers. And, this is one
reason a lot of the guys go as well. It can be a little unnerving to be
alone in the middle of nowhere on a dark night. Not that many men would
admit that! g

BTW, what kind of observing do you like most? There are observing groups
focused on particular aspects of observing, as well as equipment lists. Most
of them have other women who can relate to the difficulties you mentioned.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/


"Jeana" wrote in message
om...
I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

I also live in a very urban area and can't see anything in the night
sky unless I drive out for at least an hour and a half to the
mountains or the desert. My husband, although very supportive of my
love of astronomy, does not like it when I want to drive out alone to
some remote location (and usually those places have no cellphone
reception). He tries to go with me most of the time but can't
accompany me every time I want to go (which is all the time). He does
not want to hold me back from pursuing this hobby, and I recognize
that he has reason to worry about my heading out to the mountains
alone. I try to always take someone with me, which requires that I
can't leave when I want, or stay as long as I want. It also means I
can only go when I have someone to go with me, which means my
enjoyment of astronomy depends on my ability to secure a chaperone for
the night. I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

I also tried to make friends with people in local astronomy clubs.
Perhaps I should give this some time. I don't have too many friends
who share this interest as passionately as I do, and it's quite
difficult to find someone among my existing friends who are willing to
accompany me on these field trips. It takes time to get to know new
people, and it takes a longer amount of time for one's spouse to get
to know people well enough to feel comfortable enough to not worry
about my hanging out with them in a dark remote location until the wee
hours of the night.

Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug? My husband
is not the overly-protective type, and he hardly ever holds me back
from pursuing various interests, and he personally dislikes having to
have me adhere to certain conditions in order to head out for a
viewing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or insights anyone might have about
this issue.

wrote in message
...


Get a medium-large dog to accompany you (no miniture toy dags - some
breed the size of a coyote.) Dogs love to go sky watching with you, and
will stay nearby because you are their pack leader; they both add to
your safety and more important, to your perception of safety. Plus they
have other uses in guarding the house during the day when everybody's
gone to work.

Correct,

I go to the boonies quite often to view the heavens with my SCT. I
always bring my Lab/Collie mix who is a great watch/guard dog.
However, I never forget to keep Gaston Glock on my side the entire
time. Buy a gun, learn how to use it.


not meaning to sound alarming, but I also carry a gun. (I live in texas
where I possess a
concealed handgun permit)
But on the other hand, I have NO desire to shoot anyone.
I am rather new to astronomy and am facing similar issues. I received a very
polite
email from someone in this group a few days ago inviting me to his home to
observe
the night sky. Being female, I had to decline, as I have never met this
person. Even if
I was crazy enough to drive over that evening and pop in (which is what I
wanted to do), my partner would have
killed me for such reckless behavor.

So, all in all, I don't have a solution for you either.
Keep in touch here (there are a few of us girls) and stay active in your
club. It does take time
to cultivate friendships, but time will help!

Good Luck!
jojo

I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

My wife also worries about me and these days I rarely go to the mountains
without a companion. Part of this is that I live in San Diego and my favorite
spots are near the US-Mexico border, lots of illegal activity going on around.

I find it stifling but I also know that I am a sitting duck, engrossed in the
eyepiece. A few times while observing alone a strange noice has startled me
badly. No need for coffee after one of those. The local forest ranger says he
likes to see me because the smugglers have to move their dropoff points. Not
too reassuring for me though...

Alan French is probably your best resource here though both he and his wife Sue
are avid astronomers, she saves her writing for Sky and Telescope.

Jon

By the way, I really do enjoy Sue's columns, well written and interesting
targets too.

As you can see, while you might be something of a curiosity, there is
very little animosity towards female amateur astronomers. Some of those
trying to be helpful might come off as being a bit condescending, but I
think most guys would enjoy seeing more females becoming active in the
hobby. (and I don't mean just as a means to pick up girls...) A
larger, more diverse, population with an interest in the hobby means
more public awareness of such things as light pollution, and a chance
that more dark public parks, etc. may welcome night time stargazers.
Esmail once posted an article pointing out that in Iran, most amateur
astronomers are women!
Safety in the boonies IS a concern. A night which should be fun
could turn into a nightmare with no warning. Friends to observe with
are the best protection. A protective dog is probably a good idea if
one fits into your lifestyle. Someone mentioned a gun... in some areas
that might be wise. I myself am a rather avid shooter, and enjoy
handguns, but I don't take one with me. Rural Iowa just isn't that
dangerous, and you can only use a gun if your life is in danger. When
I'm out on a deserted road by myself with a bunch of expensive nerd
equipment, I do take a collapsible club, though. I just feel better.
And yes, more women are showing up at the range I shoot at too, and it's
great for the hobby!
Marty