Sphacecraft Doppler Shows Light Speed Doesn't Extrapolate Beyond 1 minute

DOPPLER TEST OF LIGHT SPEED DELAY FROM DISTANT SPACECRAFT
Doppler Test Shows Light Speed Does Not Extrapolate Beyond 1 Minute

An analysis of Doppler data produced by the Pioneer 10 spacecraft
shows that the speed of light delay from the spacecraft when it was
billions of miles and supposedly hours away was, despite this great
distance, actually less than a minute away. In short, we have evidence
that light speed does not extrapolate indefinitely as generally
assumed. This result is supported by a previous experiment of the
author using Pockells cell shutters,a laser and a photodiode that
showed radiation was only received if the receiver was exposed to the
emitter/scatterer during the time of emission/scattering(ref1)
Pioneer 10 was launched in 1972 and by 2003 had traveled beyond the
solar system and communication with the craft’s 8Watt
transponder has ceased. The Doppler data over the life of the mission
has been archived and was used by John Anderson and others(ref2) to
show a small anomalous acceleration of the craft toward the sun beyond
that due to the gravitational influence of the sun for most of the
life of the mission.
The roughly 29km/sec orbital motion of the earth and .465km/sec spin
motion of the earth produce various Doppler shifts of the radiation
sent to the spacecraft and received by the spacecraft. The motion of
the spacecraft,in the time period considered here about 12km/sec, also
imparts a Doppler shift to the radiation it receives and reradiates in
phase back to the earth.
This phenomena offered the possibility of testing the hypothesis
that radiation sent to the spacecraft and reflected back to earth was
sent seconds before it was received and not possibly hours before from
a possibly different site according to the conventional speed of light
delay assumption. The problem was to find times of reception where the
spin motion of the earth at the receiving site was as different as
possible from the motion of the earth at the transmission site; eg 12
hours apart as opposed to 24 hours apart etc. And among these times to
choose those where the transmitter at the receiving site was on and
the reception was in lock.
Then one could compare the recorded received frequency with the
shifted frequency expected if the reception was due to radiation
transmitted a minute before with essentially the same earth motion and
not to radiation transmitted from a possibly different site at a time
implied by the assumed speed of light delay and with a different earth
motion.
This plan was carried out with the help of the NASA Horizons Telnet
ephemeris which gives instantaneous position coordinates of hundreds
of objects in the solar system besides planets and spacecraft, minute
by minute. The coordinates are given with respect to a coordinate
center such as the sun or the site of one of the DSN antennas near
Madrid, Los Angeles and Canberra Australia. In summary, the results
for radiation
received each minute on Oct 7 1987 from 21:15 to 22:45 at Madrid were
2,292,134,xxx Hz observed and 2,292,144,xxx predicted according to the
standard model and 2,292,136,xxx predicted according to the 1 minute
model. That is, for the most part only the last three digits varied
and in the 90 cases where the transmitter was clearly on, the 1 minute
model was 800 times more accurate.
The procedure used to derive these results was as follows:
A)Obtain from the archived tracking records, fields that show the
date, time and site and if the transmitter is on(zero) or off(1), at
the site and the transmitter/exciter frequency at the site, and the
Cumulative Doppler count and a code which is zero if the receiver is
in lock.
Make calculations according to p 8 of the Anderson paper(ref 2)
The Exciter Assembly multiplies the Track Synthesizer Frequency~22MHz
times 96 to produce the S Band carrier signal at ~2.2GHz…the
current transmitter signal from the exciter is multiplied by 240/221
and a bias of 1MHz is added to the Doppler. That is 240/221 times
96 times the tr/ex frequency which is item 116 divided by 10 in the
tracking records gives Tx, From this is subtracted the Doppler
cumulative count difference which I call the down converted frequency
and is calculated from items 31 and 32 in the tracking record plus
1MHz which is item 20 in the tracking record. This gives the received
frequency,
Tx*=Tx-dn cnv frq + 1MHz..
Also on page 8 and 9(ref2) At each tenth of a second the number
of Doppler pulses are counted[This represents the number of upward
zero crossings per second of the received radiation or rather that of
a locally generated frequency in phase lock with the received
radiation eg 2,292,xxx,xxx minus a fixed frequency eg 2,292,000,000.
That is, each upward zero crossing of the downconverted version of the
received frequency is made to occur at almost exactly the same time as
a locally generated frequency-within .01 of the period, using the
familiar phase locked loop procedure] The difference in cumulative
total counts in successive minutes is the down converted
representation of the received frequency during that time. According
to the Tracking Data File specifications( ref 3), the high part of the
Doppler is multiplied by 10,000 and added to the low part of the
Doppler divided by 1,000 to yield the cumulative Doppler count.

B)Obtain instantaneous data from Horizons Telnet ephemeris by
selecting the option for no light time correction.
1)Obtain from telnet ephemeris, (target) sun xyz coordinates and sun
velocity xyz components wrt (coordinate center)earth site eg LA at Tx
time eg each minute from 9:45 to 17:45 Oct 7, 1987 and compute average
velocity for each minute interval.
2)Obtain similarly, craft coordinates and craft velocity components
and Light Time wrt site eg LA at Tx times+LT eg 15:30 to 1700
3)Compute craft coordinates and craft velocity components wrt sun.
a)craft coord wrt sun = craft coord wrt earth site plus earth
site coord wrt sun where earth site coord wrt sun = -sun coord wrt
earth.
b)craft velocity comp wrt sun = craft velocity comp wrt earth
site minus earth site vel wrt sun where earth site velocity components
wrt sun =- sun velocity components wrt earth site.

C )Calculate projections of velocities at earth site transmitter onto
direction in which transmission is going. Thus if the earth
site’s total spin and orbital motion is toward the craft, the
projection will be positive,+v, that is the Doppler shift factor,
(1+(v)/c), will be greater than 1. And if vice versa or in the case of
the craft velocity projection, the projection will be negative and
(1+(-v)/c) will be less than 1.
The projection in general is vcos(theta) where theta is the angle
between the velocity vector and the direction vector from the emitter
or receiver or reflector in the direction of the radiation. It is
equal to the dot product of the direction vector and the velocity
vector,
When the direction vector is in the opposite direction of the
velocity vector the magnitude of the dot product is the negative of
the magnitude when the direction vector and velocity vectors are in
the same direction.Thus the direction of the line between earth site
and craft could be from the earth site or the craft site ie
respectively plus or minus (c1-e1,c2-e2,c3-e3)
From these considerations we calculated
(1-v1/c)(1-v2/c)(1-v3/c)(1-v4/c) times the effective transmitted
radiation where v1 was the projected velocity of the earth site at the
time of transmission onto the radiation direction vector;v2, the
projected velocity of the
of the craft, a light time later onto the radiation direction vector
from the earlier earth site to the later craft position. Similarly for
v3 and v4. We also calculated (1-v5/c)^2 times
(1-v6/c)^2 from similar projected velocities v5 and v6 which are the
velocities of the earth motion and the craft motion projected on the
direction line between them.
The results(ref9) Discussion
The conventional measurement of Spacecraft Doppler assumes that
light speed extrapolates beyond a minute although this assumption has
never been explicitly tested in a way that is not subject to other
interpretations. That is, Roemer ascribed the differences in timing
of the occultation and reappearance of some of the moons of Jupiter
when the Earth is on the same side of the Sun as Jupiter or on the
opposite side. But as Cassini, the expert on such observations at the
time said, the differences could be due to differences in viewing
angle. A similar argument applies to pulsars. Bradley’s
aberration measurement of the position of polar stars when the Earth
is moving in opposite directions ‘under’ these stars can
also be ascribed to a nanosecond difference in response time which
would change the direction to the star at opposite times of the year.
Supposed radar reflections from surfaces of Venus etc from powerful
radar emissions on Earth have such large error bars that the results
could equally well be considered noise. The supposed 1.25 second delay
in moon radar and lidar given secondary reflections and given the
precision of the measurements a 1 second delay is also possible.
Many circumlocutions and problems in modern physics are avoided if
electromagnetic radiation is regarded not as moving photons or wave
fronts or probabilistic photons but rather as an instantaneous force
at a distance which involves a response delay that does not exeed a
second or so. The results here suggest that the delay does not exceed
a minute but could be less.


References
1)Electric Gravity and Instantaneous Light, Ralph Sansbury, 1998,
http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book03.pdf
2) "Study of the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11",
Anderson, J.D., Laing, P.A., Lau, E.L., Liu, A.S., Nieto, M.M., and
Turyshev, S.G., Physics Review D, v65, 082004, (2002))
3)http://pdsgeophys.wustl.edu/pds/mars...t/trk_2_25.txt
4) C++ compiler http://simtel.net/product.download.mirrors.php?id=17456
5)Doppler data in binary files and related documents with definitions
of some terms..
http://windsor.gsfc.nasa.gov/spacecr...tdf/atdf_data/
4) http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsndoc...tationdata.cfm
5) http://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/Monogra...rce_external=0
6) “Doppler Tracking of Planetary Spacecraft, Peter Kinman ,IEEE
trans on microwave theory and techniques” vol 40,no.6,June 1992
p1199..
7) http://tda.jpl.nasa.gov/tmo/progress...2-120/120B.pdf
8) “Radio Science Performance Analysis Software” ,
Morabito and Asmar ,TDA Progress Report 42-120, February 15, 1995.
9)http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/Doppler

Ralph Sansbury wrote:

DOPPLER TEST OF LIGHT SPEED DELAY FROM DISTANT SPACECRAFT
Doppler Test Shows Light Speed Does Not Extrapolate Beyond 1 Minute

An analysis of Doppler data produced by the Pioneer 10 spacecraft
shows that the speed of light delay from the spacecraft when it was
billions of miles and supposedly hours away was, despite this great
distance, actually less than a minute away.

Folks should read at the papers
http://www.google.com/search?q=pione...te%3AarXiv.org

Ralph Sansbury wrote:

DOPPLER TEST OF LIGHT SPEED DELAY FROM DISTANT SPACECRAFT
Doppler Test Shows Light Speed Does Not Extrapolate Beyond 1 Minute

An analysis of Doppler data produced by the Pioneer 10 spacecraft
shows that the speed of light delay from the spacecraft when it was
billions of miles and supposedly hours away was, despite this great
distance, actually less than a minute away.
[snip]

BULL****.

You haven't the slightest idea how Dopper shfit interacts with the
Hubble constant.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

You still haven't told me how much data an antenna can hold before it gets
filled up!
In addition, you haven't described how an antenna can receive data from
somewhere that it isn't pointed at.
Ralphie IFS, you really don't know what you are talking about.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works every time it is tried!

"Ralph Sansbury" skrev i melding om...
DOPPLER TEST OF LIGHT SPEED DELAY FROM DISTANT SPACECRAFT
Doppler Test Shows Light Speed Does Not Extrapolate Beyond 1 Minute

An analysis of Doppler data produced by the Pioneer 10 spacecraft
shows that the speed of light delay from the spacecraft when it was
billions of miles and supposedly hours away was, despite this great
distance, actually less than a minute away. In short, we have evidence
that light speed does not extrapolate indefinitely as generally
assumed. This result is supported by a previous experiment of the
author using Pockells cell shutters,a laser and a photodiode that
showed radiation was only received if the receiver was exposed to the
emitter/scatterer during the time of emission/scattering(ref1)
Pioneer 10 was launched in 1972 and by 2003 had traveled beyond the
solar system and communication with the craft’s 8Watt
transponder has ceased. The Doppler data over the life of the mission
has been archived and was used by John Anderson and others(ref2) to
show a small anomalous acceleration of the craft toward the sun beyond
that due to the gravitational influence of the sun for most of the
life of the mission.
The roughly 29km/sec orbital motion of the earth and .465km/sec spin
motion of the earth produce various Doppler shifts of the radiation
sent to the spacecraft and received by the spacecraft. The motion of
the spacecraft,in the time period considered here about 12km/sec, also
imparts a Doppler shift to the radiation it receives and reradiates in
phase back to the earth.
This phenomena offered the possibility of testing the hypothesis
that radiation sent to the spacecraft and reflected back to earth was
sent seconds before it was received and not possibly hours before from
a possibly different site according to the conventional speed of light
delay assumption. The problem was to find times of reception where the
spin motion of the earth at the receiving site was as different as
possible from the motion of the earth at the transmission site; eg 12
hours apart as opposed to 24 hours apart etc. And among these times to
choose those where the transmitter at the receiving site was on and
the reception was in lock.
Then one could compare the recorded received frequency with the
shifted frequency expected if the reception was due to radiation
transmitted a minute before with essentially the same earth motion and
not to radiation transmitted from a possibly different site at a time
implied by the assumed speed of light delay and with a different earth
motion.
This plan was carried out with the help of the NASA Horizons Telnet
ephemeris which gives instantaneous position coordinates of hundreds
of objects in the solar system besides planets and spacecraft, minute
by minute. The coordinates are given with respect to a coordinate
center such as the sun or the site of one of the DSN antennas near
Madrid, Los Angeles and Canberra Australia. In summary, the results
for radiation
received each minute on Oct 7 1987 from 21:15 to 22:45 at Madrid were
2,292,134,xxx Hz observed and 2,292,144,xxx predicted according to the
standard model and 2,292,136,xxx predicted according to the 1 minute
model. That is, for the most part only the last three digits varied
and in the 90 cases where the transmitter was clearly on, the 1 minute
model was 800 times more accurate.
The procedure used to derive these results was as follows:
A)Obtain from the archived tracking records, fields that show the
date, time and site and if the transmitter is on(zero) or off(1), at
the site and the transmitter/exciter frequency at the site, and the
Cumulative Doppler count and a code which is zero if the receiver is
in lock.
Make calculations according to p 8 of the Anderson paper(ref 2)
The Exciter Assembly multiplies the Track Synthesizer Frequency~22MHz
times 96 to produce the S Band carrier signal at ~2.2GHz…the
current transmitter signal from the exciter is multiplied by 240/221
and a bias of 1MHz is added to the Doppler. That is 240/221 times
96 times the tr/ex frequency which is item 116 divided by 10 in the
tracking records gives Tx, From this is subtracted the Doppler
cumulative count difference which I call the down converted frequency
and is calculated from items 31 and 32 in the tracking record plus
1MHz which is item 20 in the tracking record. This gives the received
frequency,
Tx*=Tx-dn cnv frq + 1MHz..
Also on page 8 and 9(ref2) At each tenth of a second the number
of Doppler pulses are counted[This represents the number of upward
zero crossings per second of the received radiation or rather that of
a locally generated frequency in phase lock with the received
radiation eg 2,292,xxx,xxx minus a fixed frequency eg 2,292,000,000.
That is, each upward zero crossing of the downconverted version of the
received frequency is made to occur at almost exactly the same time as
a locally generated frequency-within .01 of the period, using the
familiar phase locked loop procedure] The difference in cumulative
total counts in successive minutes is the down converted
representation of the received frequency during that time. According
to the Tracking Data File specifications( ref 3), the high part of the
Doppler is multiplied by 10,000 and added to the low part of the
Doppler divided by 1,000 to yield the cumulative Doppler count.

B)Obtain instantaneous data from Horizons Telnet ephemeris by
selecting the option for no light time correction.
1)Obtain from telnet ephemeris, (target) sun xyz coordinates and sun
velocity xyz components wrt (coordinate center)earth site eg LA at Tx
time eg each minute from 9:45 to 17:45 Oct 7, 1987 and compute average
velocity for each minute interval.
2)Obtain similarly, craft coordinates and craft velocity components
and Light Time wrt site eg LA at Tx times+LT eg 15:30 to 1700
3)Compute craft coordinates and craft velocity components wrt sun.
a)craft coord wrt sun = craft coord wrt earth site plus earth
site coord wrt sun where earth site coord wrt sun = -sun coord wrt
earth.
b)craft velocity comp wrt sun = craft velocity comp wrt earth
site minus earth site vel wrt sun where earth site velocity components
wrt sun =- sun velocity components wrt earth site.

C )Calculate projections of velocities at earth site transmitter onto
direction in which transmission is going. Thus if the earth
site’s total spin and orbital motion is toward the craft, the
projection will be positive,+v, that is the Doppler shift factor,
(1+(v)/c), will be greater than 1. And if vice versa or in the case of
the craft velocity projection, the projection will be negative and
(1+(-v)/c) will be less than 1.
The projection in general is vcos(theta) where theta is the angle
between the velocity vector and the direction vector from the emitter
or receiver or reflector in the direction of the radiation. It is
equal to the dot product of the direction vector and the velocity
vector,
When the direction vector is in the opposite direction of the
velocity vector the magnitude of the dot product is the negative of
the magnitude when the direction vector and velocity vectors are in
the same direction.Thus the direction of the line between earth site
and craft could be from the earth site or the craft site ie
respectively plus or minus (c1-e1,c2-e2,c3-e3)
From these considerations we calculated
(1-v1/c)(1-v2/c)(1-v3/c)(1-v4/c) times the effective transmitted
radiation where v1 was the projected velocity of the earth site at the
time of transmission onto the radiation direction vector;v2, the
projected velocity of the
of the craft, a light time later onto the radiation direction vector
from the earlier earth site to the later craft position. Similarly for
v3 and v4. We also calculated (1-v5/c)^2 times
(1-v6/c)^2 from similar projected velocities v5 and v6 which are the
velocities of the earth motion and the craft motion projected on the
direction line between them.
The results(ref9) Discussion
The conventional measurement of Spacecraft Doppler assumes that
light speed extrapolates beyond a minute although this assumption has
never been explicitly tested in a way that is not subject to other
interpretations. That is, Roemer ascribed the differences in timing
of the occultation and reappearance of some of the moons of Jupiter
when the Earth is on the same side of the Sun as Jupiter or on the
opposite side. But as Cassini, the expert on such observations at the
time said, the differences could be due to differences in viewing
angle. A similar argument applies to pulsars. Bradley’s
aberration measurement of the position of polar stars when the Earth
is moving in opposite directions ‘under’ these stars can
also be ascribed to a nanosecond difference in response time which
would change the direction to the star at opposite times of the year.
Supposed radar reflections from surfaces of Venus etc from powerful
radar emissions on Earth have such large error bars that the results
could equally well be considered noise. The supposed 1.25 second delay
in moon radar and lidar given secondary reflections and given the
precision of the measurements a 1 second delay is also possible.
Many circumlocutions and problems in modern physics are avoided if
electromagnetic radiation is regarded not as moving photons or wave
fronts or probabilistic photons but rather as an instantaneous force
at a distance which involves a response delay that does not exeed a
second or so. The results here suggest that the delay does not exceed
a minute but could be less.


References
1)Electric Gravity and Instantaneous Light, Ralph Sansbury, 1998,
http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/book03.pdf
2) "Study of the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11",
Anderson, J.D., Laing, P.A., Lau, E.L., Liu, A.S., Nieto, M.M., and
Turyshev, S.G., Physics Review D, v65, 082004, (2002))
3)http://pdsgeophys.wustl.edu/pds/mars...t/trk_2_25.txt
4) C++ compiler http://simtel.net/product.download.mirrors.php?id=17456
5)Doppler data in binary files and related documents with definitions
of some terms..
http://windsor.gsfc.nasa.gov/spacecr...tdf/atdf_data/
4) http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsndoc...tationdata.cfm
5) http://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/Monogra...rce_external=0
6) “Doppler Tracking of Planetary Spacecraft, Peter Kinman ,IEEE
trans on microwave theory and techniques” vol 40,no.6,June 1992
p1199..
7) http://tda.jpl.nasa.gov/tmo/progress...2-120/120B.pdf
8) “Radio Science Performance Analysis Software” ,
Morabito and Asmar ,TDA Progress Report 42-120, February 15, 1995.
9)http://www.bestweb.net/~sansbury/Doppler

There should be no delay in the change in Doppler shift due
to the spin and orbital motion of the Earth.

When YOU accelerate, the Doppler shift YOU observe
will change immediately.

Paul

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...
|
| "Ralph Sansbury" skrev i melding
om...
| DOPPLER TEST OF LIGHT SPEED DELAY FROM DISTANT
SPACECRAFT
| Doppler Test Shows Light Speed Does Not Extrapolate
Beyond 1 Minute

[snip]

| There should be no delay in the change in Doppler shift
due
| to the spin and orbital motion of the Earth.
|
| When YOU accelerate, the Doppler shift YOU observe
| will change immediately.
|
| Paul

You didn't understand he word he said, did you?
"There should be..." ROFL!
Sansbury is discussing actual measurement, not "should be"
measurement, you idiot.
Androcles

Androcles should read at the papers
http://www.google.com/search?q=pione...te%3AarXiv.org

"Sam Wormley" wrote in message
...
| Androcles should read at the papers
|
http://www.google.com/search?q=pione...te%3AarXiv.org

Sam Wormley should read the paper at
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
and then consider the concept "moving clocks run slow"

Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c



t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)

= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds


Consider Einstein's doppler shift, to be found in the
equation


1-cos(phi).v/c
nu' = nu. ________________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)


ref (Electrodynamics, section 7)

Let phi = pi/2

1-0
nu' = 1 . ___________
0.5
= 2 ticks per second.

So according to Einstein,

0.5 = 2

Thus we have a proof by contradiction that Einstein's is
bull****.
Androcles

So we're down to having a guy that can't explain how fast light is telling
us what is causing the apparent discrepency of the position of those probes?
Ralphie IFS hasn't yet explained how an antenna not pointed at a particular
probe can recover the data from that probe and hold it for hours or days
before spitting it out to the rest of the receiver system.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works every time it is tried!

"Androcles" skrev i melding
...

Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c



t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)

= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds


Consider Einstein's doppler shift, to be found in the
equation


1-cos(phi).v/c
nu' = nu. ________________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)


ref (Electrodynamics, section 7)

Let phi = pi/2

1-0
nu' = 1 . ___________
0.5
= 2 ticks per second.

So according to Einstein,

0.5 = 2

Thus we have a proof by contradiction that Einstein's is
bull****.
Androcles

Androcles, was my challenge posted in the thread
"Honourable mentions" too difficult for you?

It is relevant to the confusion you display above.

Paul