Big Steve's NG Poll: is another Moon mission a good idea?

"John Savard" wrote in message
...
Still, it is true that the technology
developed in Apollo is still with us.

Is it? Can we land on the moon with current technology? No. with past
techology yes - but current technology is all about management, and keeping
people in a big tin can in orbit

Doug

"Doug Ellison" wrote in message
...

"John Savard" wrote in message
...
Still, it is true that the technology
developed in Apollo is still with us.

Is it? Can we land on the moon with current technology? No. with past
techology yes - but current technology is all about management, and
keeping
people in a big tin can in orbit

What technology do we NOT have today?



Doug

While it probably won't be necessary, at least for the journey to
Mars, to apply the ultimate brute-force solution to this problem, it
still can be noted that one thing that could be done using lunar
materials is to build a world in miniature - a rotating cylinder which
provides artificial gravity not through fictional Star Trek
technology, but through centrifugal force, whose interior is covered
with soil and growing plants.

One thing that has always puzzled me is the reluctance of NASA and
commentators on the space program to even talk about creating
artificial gravity envronments in space stations and deep space
ships such as the future Mars ship. The only way we can simulate
gravity effectively is to spin the ship or station. Since it is
plain to anybody that we need simulated gravity when spending more
than a few months in space, and probably need it for more than a
few weeks to insure good health, you would think this would be
part of any design for a space station, or an interplanetary ship.
Ha! Just try to find it in NASAs near-term plans.

NASA must consider it too difficult or too expensive, but I have
yet to read a sound explanation as to why this would be the case.
I can think of designs to accomplish this myself. Arthur C. Clark
showed a couple in the ships depicted in his "2001: movie and its
sequel. The big wheel-space station design has been around for
half a century or more.

We won't be able to actually live in space without simulated
gravity. It's essential for a serious space station. Personally, I
think it's silly to even be talking about a Mars mission in a ship
that doesn't spin. By the time the astronauts reached Mars, the
poor *******s wouldn't even be able to stand up, let alone do
anything useful. All the bull**** you read about drugs to combat
the effects of weightlessness is just that, bull****. Human
biology and wightlessness don't mix. We can tolerate it for a
while, but it hurts us. Fortunately, the solution is simple. Spin
the bloody station! And spin the ship!

Al Smith writes:

While it probably won't be necessary, at least for the journey to
Mars, to apply the ultimate brute-force solution to this problem, it
still can be noted that one thing that could be done using lunar
materials is to build a world in miniature - a rotating cylinder which
provides artificial gravity not through fictional Star Trek
technology, but through centrifugal force, whose interior is covered
with soil and growing plants.

One thing that has always puzzled me is the reluctance of NASA and
commentators on the space program to even talk about creating
artificial gravity envronments in space stations and deep space
ships such as the future Mars ship. The only way we can simulate
gravity effectively is to spin the ship or station. Since it is
plain to anybody that we need simulated gravity when spending more
than a few months in space,


This is obviously not clear to, e.g. Valery Polyakov, Musa Maranov,
and Vladimir Titov, all of whom have spent more than a year in
space, in continuous microgravity.

It's not the healthiest thing in the world, and it's a major PITA
staying at all healthy under such circumstances, but it is demonstrably
something professional astronauts can and will do as part of the job.
And twelve months is more than long enough for even a slow boat to
Mars.

And while artificial gravity (spin, not magic) would indeed be nice,
it doesn't scale well to small spacecraft. Anybody who is doing any
sort of detailed planning for manned Mars missions now, is planning
on using small craft, and it is perfectly appropriate for them to
dispense with the complexities of trying to shoehorn spin gravity
into their systems in favor of the known solution of selecting their
crew from among people willing to spend eight months at a time in
free-fall.


Where the real question lies, is what happens when we put someone in
the 0.4G Martian environment for a year and a half between periods
of zero G. That's not a problem that can be tested here or solved
there by spin gravity, and is probably going to remain a partial
unknown until the first manned Mars missions.


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What about *real* artificial gravity?

What about it? It's a nice idea, but a total fantasy. We're likely
to have warp drive before we get artificial gravity of the kind we
see on Trek.

Keeper of the Purple Twilight writes:

What about *real* artificial gravity?

You could take along a suitably dense object on the trip.
Any politicians come to mind?

--
Darin Johnson
Where am I? In the village... What do you want? Information...

"Darin Johnson" wrote in message
...
Keeper of the Purple Twilight writes:

What about *real* artificial gravity?

You could take along a suitably dense object on the trip.
Any politicians come to mind?

Uh...I don't get it.

(Do I get the job?)

in article , Darin Johnson at
wrote on 12/5/03 5:55 PM:

Keeper of the Purple Twilight writes:

What about *real* artificial gravity?

You could take along a suitably dense object on the trip.
Any politicians come to mind?

Maybe Ted Kennedy's head for the sheer size of that thing. It's huge!

But maybe George Bush's head for the sheer density.
--
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I
can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
-- "Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

Keeper of the Purple Twilight writes:

Perhaps. Have any of the sci-fi shows we have, offered any kind of
explanation as to how true artificial gravity would work? It may not
be as impossible as everyone thinks. As everyone thinks *flying* used
to be...

I wouldn't look to sci-fi shows for explanations about science.
If it is indeed possible, it won't be discovered because by a
script writer.

--
Darin Johnson
"You used to be big."
"I am big. It's the pictures that got small."

lid (John Savard) wrote in
:

True. But a journey of 1000 li does not start by taking one step, and
then turning around and taking one step back. After you take the first
step, you must stay facing in the same direction, avoid retreating,
and take a second step in the same direction, and then continue.
snip

Wow, great answer John. It was fun reading your post!

Gisele
--
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