Deprogrammed yet?

Why is it that it always takes the druggies to start the anti-war
protests and stop the killing campaigns? Is it that the drugs deprogram
you from the government indoctrination? The war media has us all
programmed for war and killing our own children? It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda. It is becoming clear now. All those in jail for drugs are
American political prisoners.


--
--

50% of all statistics are wrong. The rest don't matter.


Claude Hopper

Clyde Crashcup wrote:
It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda.

Setting that claim aside for the moment (but I will return to it later)
on what grounds does a government have the authority to tell people
what substances they can choose to ingest?

There are some things that are too dangerous to leave lying around. If
the government were to treat "date-rape" drugs like fissionable
materials - if they're needed for dental anaesthesia, you might have to
enter a secure government compound to go to the dentist - I would
applaud that as entirely legitimate, I think.

Alcohol - once, briefly, outlawed during Prohibition - has obvious
dangers. It is well known that some people, once they get drunk,
perpetrate violence against others. For example, they might beat their
wives. And alcohol is itself emplyed in seduction. So it is hardly an
accident that the movement which led to Prohibition was spearheaded by
women.

The abuse of alcohol, and this is also true of marijuana and opium,
tends to produce people who are unemployable. And if they can't do a
day's work in industry, they also can't serve their country in the
armed forces.

I believe it is this - that it causes an _incapacity_ to fight in war -
not that it "liberates" the mind to see through excuses for war that
has been the historical reason for states to regulate the use of
intoxicants, narcotics, and psychoactive substances.

As for those who don't use drugs, why is it so "easy" to convince them
that their homeland is in danger, and that they have a duty to risk
their lives in defending it? The answer is not really that hard to
find.

They have wives and children.

John Savard

Clyde Crashcup wrote:
Why is it that it always takes the druggies to start the anti-war
protests and stop the killing campaigns? Is it that the drugs deprogram
you from the government indoctrination? The war media has us all
programmed for war and killing our own children? It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda. It is becoming clear now. All those in jail for drugs are
American political prisoners.

What is the percenatge of people jailed for drugs that are A) dealers
and B) users. You imply that all A are also B.

I'm almost inclined to say that all A that are NOT B belong in jail and
all B need treatment rather than jail.

Eric



--
--

50% of all statistics are wrong. The rest don't matter.


Claude Hopper

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
oups.com...

Clyde Crashcup wrote:
Why is it that it always takes the druggies to start the anti-war
protests and stop the killing campaigns? Is it that the drugs deprogram
you from the government indoctrination? The war media has us all
programmed for war and killing our own children? It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda. It is becoming clear now. All those in jail for drugs are
American political prisoners.

What is the percenatge of people jailed for drugs that are A) dealers
and B) users. You imply that all A are also B.

I'm almost inclined to say that all A that are NOT B belong in jail and
all B need treatment rather than jail.


Well, from watching court tv g, not from sitting in front of a crack
pipe for 2 1/2 months, it seems most in jail for drugs were caught
selling rocks on a street corner. The economics of cocaine addition
makes it difficult to maintain without become a seller.

If you have plenty of coke, you'll sit in front of the crack pipe
until your heart stops.
If you run out, it's selling it or stealing for it.

Either way it's a quick and viscous cycle to the bottom of the bowl.

Jails are our national rehab centers, they train addicts
to become career criminals.

Jails for addicts need to become smaller in population, like
half way houses. If only Lockheed and Boeing could find
a way to make money at that, we'd be knee deep in
drup treatment centers~





Eric



--
--

50% of all statistics are wrong. The rest don't matter.


Claude Hopper

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, jonathan wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
Clyde Crashcup wrote:

Why is it that it always takes the druggies to start the anti-war
protests and stop the killing campaigns? Is it that the drugs deprogram
you from the government indoctrination? The war media has us all
programmed for war and killing our own children? It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda. It is becoming clear now. All those in jail for drugs are
American political prisoners.

What is the percenatge of people jailed for drugs that are A) dealers
and B) users. You imply that all A are also B.

I'm almost inclined to say that all A that are NOT B belong in jail and
all B need treatment rather than jail.

If you have plenty of coke, you'll sit in front of the crack pipe
until your heart stops.
If you run out, it's selling it or stealing for it.

Either way it's a quick and viscous cycle to the bottom of the bowl.

Jails are our national rehab centers, they train addicts
to become career criminals.

Jails for addicts need to become smaller in population, like
half way houses. If only Lockheed and Boeing could find
a way to make money at that, we'd be knee deep in
drup treatment centers~

Is simple, provide all imates with their drug of choice, all they want
whenever they want it until they burn out and drop dead. Every body wins,
we all get rid of a drug addict and the addict is most happy for the rest
of his short life being constantly drugged to death.

William Elliot wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, jonathan wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
Clyde Crashcup wrote:

Why is it that it always takes the druggies to start the anti-war
protests and stop the killing campaigns? Is it that the drugs deprogram
you from the government indoctrination? The war media has us all
programmed for war and killing our own children? It seem the government
is afraid of drugs for this reason; all the other reasons just
propaganda. It is becoming clear now. All those in jail for drugs are
American political prisoners.

What is the percenatge of people jailed for drugs that are A) dealers
and B) users. You imply that all A are also B.

I'm almost inclined to say that all A that are NOT B belong in jail and
all B need treatment rather than jail.

If you have plenty of coke, you'll sit in front of the crack pipe
until your heart stops.
If you run out, it's selling it or stealing for it.

Either way it's a quick and viscous cycle to the bottom of the bowl.

Jails are our national rehab centers, they train addicts
to become career criminals.

Jails for addicts need to become smaller in population, like
half way houses. If only Lockheed and Boeing could find
a way to make money at that, we'd be knee deep in
drup treatment centers~

Is simple, provide all imates with their drug of choice, all they want
whenever they want it until they burn out and drop dead. Every body wins,
we all get rid of a drug addict and the addict is most happy for the rest
of his short life being constantly drugged to death.

I don't know if there is a methadone equivalent for cocaine addicts but
it does seem, at least in parts around DC (suburbs), that less people
are addicted to heroin than say 20+ years ago. Did methadone work or
did heroin just move away?

Eric

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:I don't know if there is a methadone equivalent for cocaine addicts but
:it does seem, at least in parts around DC (suburbs), that less people
:are addicted to heroin than say 20+ years ago. Did methadone work or
:did heroin just move away?

How much methadone are they currently handing out? If it's not enough
to make up the difference then heroin just moved away. Keep in mind
that methadone is more addictive than heroin. Once they start
methadone therapy they either stay there or go back to heroin.

There's really no need for a methadone equivalent for cocaine, since
cocaine addition doesn't exhibit the sort of strong physical
withdrawal symptoms that opiates do.

--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:I don't know if there is a methadone equivalent for cocaine addicts but
:it does seem, at least in parts around DC (suburbs), that less people
:are addicted to heroin than say 20+ years ago. Did methadone work or
:did heroin just move away?

How much methadone are they currently handing out?

I have no idea.

If it's not enough
to make up the difference then heroin just moved away. Keep in mind
that methadone is more addictive than heroin. Once they start
methadone therapy they either stay there or go back to heroin.

I think it depends on the addict. But yes, replacing one bad thing with
another bad thing even though the latter is "legal" doesn't seem to
actually address the problem.


There's really no need for a methadone equivalent for cocaine, since
cocaine addition doesn't exhibit the sort of strong physical
withdrawal symptoms that opiates do.

Yes, but there is the psychological addiction and also the
combinatorial aspect of cocaine addiction (i.e. with alcohol and
nicotine). Further, crack is different than powder cocaine as they are
different molecules. The former appears to be more addicting than the
latter, but neither has the same physcial addictive aspects WRT
withdrawl symptoms that the opiates have.

Eric


--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :I don't know if there is a methadone equivalent for cocaine addicts but
: :it does seem, at least in parts around DC (suburbs), that less people
: :are addicted to heroin than say 20+ years ago. Did methadone work or
: :did heroin just move away?
:
: How much methadone are they currently handing out?
:
:I have no idea.
:
: If it's not enough
: to make up the difference then heroin just moved away. Keep in mind
: that methadone is more addictive than heroin. Once they start
: methadone therapy they either stay there or go back to heroin.
:
:I think it depends on the addict. But yes, replacing one bad thing with
:another bad thing even though the latter is "legal" doesn't seem to
:actually address the problem.

I believe that if you examine how methadone is used you will find that
there is *NO* provision for getting the addict off methadone.

: There's really no need for a methadone equivalent for cocaine, since
: cocaine addition doesn't exhibit the sort of strong physical
: withdrawal symptoms that opiates do.
:
:Yes, but there is the psychological addiction and also the
:combinatorial aspect of cocaine addiction (i.e. with alcohol and
:nicotine).

None of which are managed by a program like methadone substitution.
All methadone treatment does is remove the physical craving.

:Further, crack is different than powder cocaine as they are
:different molecules.

Not really, when you consider the active agent. Cocaine is cocaine.
The only difference between powder cocaine and crack is that the
latter has been recrystalized. Same thing applies to freebase
cocaine, by the way (although the recrystalization process is a little
different).

:The former appears to be more addicting than the
:latter, ...

This is true because of the way it is used rather than due to any
molecular difference in active agent. Because it is smoked, crack
cocaine puts more active agent into the blood (and hence onto the
blood/brain boundary) faster.

:... but neither has the same physcial addictive aspects WRT
:withdrawl symptoms that the opiates have.

And it is that physical component that methadone substitution
treatment deals with.

--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :I don't know if there is a methadone equivalent for cocaine addicts but
: :it does seem, at least in parts around DC (suburbs), that less people
: :are addicted to heroin than say 20+ years ago. Did methadone work or
: :did heroin just move away?
:
: How much methadone are they currently handing out?
:
:I have no idea.
:
: If it's not enough
: to make up the difference then heroin just moved away. Keep in mind
: that methadone is more addictive than heroin. Once they start
: methadone therapy they either stay there or go back to heroin.
:
:I think it depends on the addict. But yes, replacing one bad thing with
:another bad thing even though the latter is "legal" doesn't seem to
:actually address the problem.

I believe that if you examine how methadone is used you will find that
there is *NO* provision for getting the addict off methadone.

Right, but some programs also use something akin to a 12 step program
and therapy. In the end it is up the addict to quit or not.


: There's really no need for a methadone equivalent for cocaine, since
: cocaine addition doesn't exhibit the sort of strong physical
: withdrawal symptoms that opiates do.
:
:Yes, but there is the psychological addiction and also the
:combinatorial aspect of cocaine addiction (i.e. with alcohol and
:nicotine).

None of which are managed by a program like methadone substitution.
All methadone treatment does is remove the physical craving.

That and allow the addict to get "legal" access to an otherwise illegal
drug.


:Further, crack is different than powder cocaine as they are
:different molecules.

Not really, when you consider the active agent. Cocaine is cocaine.
The only difference between powder cocaine and crack is that the
latter has been recrystalized. Same thing applies to freebase
cocaine, by the way (although the recrystalization process is a little
different).

:The former appears to be more addicting than the
:latter, ...

This is true because of the way it is used rather than due to any
molecular difference in active agent. Because it is smoked, crack
cocaine puts more active agent into the blood (and hence onto the
blood/brain boundary) faster.

What about injection of cocaine with a needle? Is it more addicting due
to the method?


:... but neither has the same physcial addictive aspects WRT
:withdrawl symptoms that the opiates have.

And it is that physical component that methadone substitution
treatment deals with.

Right. So what is the clinical solution to dealing with crack and
cocaine addicts if not a methadone equivalent?

Eric

--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer