Black Holes

In article ,
Matthew wrote:
wondered if anyone has tried this yet. What if one were to create a
contained area where there is absolutely no matter. Then shoot a
single atom into it and see how the atom behaves. What would happen?

It's a single atom, nothing special. Some modern physics experiments
manipulate single atoms in a vacuum fairly routinely.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

this message is to Matthew )

to answer your question about "what would happen if you created an
area of space that had absolutly no matter at all and then shot an
atom in to the center of it?" well let me start be saying this is
impasable to do. or at least imposable to do with out creating a black
hole it self. further more with that in mind the interesting thing is
not how the atom would behave but rather how this center of matterless
space would behave. again as i said an area of space with absolutly no
matter in it at all would in fact be a black hole. a black hole is in
fact an area of matterless space, and because there is absolutly no
matter there at all the universe which is made up of protons and
electrons (esentialy electrical energy) and thus follows the same laws
of electrisity that any electrical circuit does litteraly discharges
this means that the universe displaces it self to fill in the gap and
thus the matter in the universe meaning the electrons and protons move
to fill in the hole. this emense discharge even for a moment creates
any enormas gravitational field which emplodes on it self the field is
so powerful that matter begins to be crushed and disappear where the
matter go is still anyones guess how ever the single atom that you
would shoot in the area of matterless space would simply move to the
exact center and them disappear.


(Matthew) wrote in message . com...
Hi. I don't know much about physics, but I had an idea. I have been
reading a book about Black Holes and the works of Stephan Hawking, and
wondered if anyone has tried this yet. What if one were to create a
contained area where there is absolutely no matter. Then shoot a
single atom into it and see how the atom behaves. What would happen?

(Henry Spencer) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Matthew wrote:
wondered if anyone has tried this yet. What if one were to create a
contained area where there is absolutely no matter. Then shoot a
single atom into it and see how the atom behaves. What would happen?

It's a single atom, nothing special. Some modern physics experiments
manipulate single atoms in a vacuum fairly routinely.

Since the gravity gradient from Earth's gravity field is pretty small
in the scope of these experiment, do they provide information on what
happens to the vacuum at points where the "rubber sheet" is pretty
flat? Is there a radius for the vacuum where the balance of
Newtonian/Einsteinian/Heisenbergian effects changes?

/dps

(michael ryan) writes:

this message is to Matthew )

to answer your question about "what would happen if you created an
area of space that had absolutly no matter at all and then shot an
atom in to the center of it?" well let me start be saying this is
impasable to do. or at least imposable to do with out creating a black
hole it self.

You are wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.


further more with that in mind the interesting thing is not how the atom
would behave but rather how this center of matterless space would
behave. again as i said an area of space with absolutly no matter in it
at all would in fact be a black hole.

Again, you are wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.


a black hole is in fact an area of matterless space,

No, that is =NOT= what a "black hole" is. Crudely speaking, a "black hole"
is a region where a given mass density became SO CONCENTRATED and whose
gravitational field became SO STRONG that =NOTHING= could escape it,
not even light. This condition is about as FAR away from being an
"absolute vacuum" as anything could possibly be !!!


and because there is absolutly no matter there at all the universe which
is made up of protons and electrons (esentialy electrical energy) and
thus follows the same laws of electrisity that any electrical circuit
does litteraly discharges this means that the universe displaces it self
to fill in the gap and thus the matter in the universe meaning the
electrons and protons move to fill in the hole. this emense discharge
even for a moment creates any enormas gravitational field which emplodes
on it self the field is so powerful that matter begins to be crushed and
disappear where the matter go is still anyones guess how ever the single
atom that you would shoot in the area of matterless space would simply
move to the exact center and them disappear.

This is complete and utter gibberish. You are sticking technobabble words
together at random. You do not have the faintest clue what you are talking about.
Please go find a book on the subject, read it, and learn something.


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

on 30 Oct 2003 04:20:43 -0600, Gordon D. Pusch
sez:

` (michael ryan) writes:

` this message is to Matthew )
`
` to answer your question about "what would happen if you created an
` area of space that had absolutly no matter at all and then shot an
` atom in to the center of it?" well let me start be saying this is
` impasable to do. or at least imposable to do with out creating a black
` hole it self.

` You are wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.


` further more with that in mind the interesting thing is not how the atom
` would behave but rather how this center of matterless space would
` behave. again as i said an area of space with absolutly no matter in it
` at all would in fact be a black hole.

` Again, you are wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.


` a black hole is in fact an area of matterless space,

` No, that is =NOT= what a "black hole" is. Crudely speaking, a "black hole"
` is a region where a given mass density became SO CONCENTRATED and whose
` gravitational field became SO STRONG that =NOTHING= could escape it,
` not even light. This condition is about as FAR away from being an
` "absolute vacuum" as anything could possibly be !!!


` and because there is absolutly no matter there at all the universe which
` is made up of protons and electrons (esentialy electrical energy) and
` thus follows the same laws of electrisity that any electrical circuit
` does litteraly discharges this means that the universe displaces it self
` to fill in the gap and thus the matter in the universe meaning the
` electrons and protons move to fill in the hole. this emense discharge
` even for a moment creates any enormas gravitational field which emplodes
` on it self the field is so powerful that matter begins to be crushed and
` disappear where the matter go is still anyones guess how ever the single
` atom that you would shoot in the area of matterless space would simply
` move to the exact center and them disappear.

` This is complete and utter gibberish. You are sticking technobabble words
` together at random. You do not have the faintest clue what you are
` talking about. Please go find a book on the subject, read it, and learn
` something.

You have to admit, it's pretty impressive in the sheer concentration
of misinformation. It's near the maximum density in misconceptions
per syllable. But what disturbs me is that the original poster
seems to be inhabiting the same conceptual space. It appears there
is a faulty meme out there; a meme virus, say. Rather disturbing.
It reminds me of the notorious "Heavy boots" episode. (And then
there was the radio interviewer the other day talking about the
solar storm, and the scientist being interviewed started to explain
how the hazard might be different were the earth's magnetic field
undergoing one of its periodic reversals, and be near zero strength.
The woman asked "Then what would happen, would we all be flung off
into space?" Ouch. That just hurts.)


--
================================================== ========================
Pete Vincent
Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

Discussions of UFOs and such are maddening - this discussion is just
sad. And very difficult to read without some attempt to shed some
light on this subject!

Next time you're in a bookstore - check out a copy of GRAVITATION by
Misner Thorne and Wheeler. The $120+ price tag put most people off -
but don't let that stop you from checking out Chapter 33: BLACK HOLES.
And especially Figure 33.1 on page 873.

On page 883 Box 33.3 - THe Astrophysics of Black Holes - describes the
mechanisms of formation. How black holes are formed provides the
least controversial aspect to discuss in a forum such as this. A
massive star whose mass is greater than about 3x the mass of the sun
is too massive to support itself against gravity. So, once its fuel
is expended, it will collapse. Now, things are rather interesting at
the center of this collapse. A static black hole really has little to
say for itself, other than give out its mass. A spinning or charged
mass, collapsing to black hole densities, have an interesting
structure, both in their ergosphere and in their centers. Check out
page 890 Box 33.4 section G.

While it may be true that the mass that creates a black hole is
crushed out of existence in any normal meaning of the term, its
massenergy is not. It lives on in the warped space left behind. And
it definitely didn't start out as empty space. Also, that mass is
regurgitated in the form of Hawking Radiation over time.

http://nrumiano.free.fr/Estars/bh_thermo.html
http://sancerre.as.arizona.edu/~fan/ast201/ppt/15
http://school.discovery.com/lessonpl...ms/blackholes/

Now, don't be confused about what happens around a black hole to
generate Hawking Radiation and what it takes to create a black hole in
the first place.

Matthew wrote:
Hi. I don't know much about physics, but I had an idea. I have been
reading a book about Black Holes and the works of Stephan Hawking, and
wondered if anyone has tried this yet. What if one were to create a
contained area where there is absolutely no matter. Then shoot a
single atom into it and see how the atom behaves. What would happen?

Not much.
In deep space, collisions between particles are quite rare.
What do you think might happen?