Copper as a Catalyst

Does anyone know on where I can get useful rate of reaction information on
using copper as a catalyst to decompose hydrogen peroxide is it is heated up
first. I know that it did not work out for John's design but I have seen
warnings that imply that copper can cause runaway decomposion of H2O2.

Earl Colby Pottinger

PS. A google search just find class experiments. And yes I do plan to try
out some experiments myself but some hard figures on what to expect would
help too.

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
Does anyone know on where I can get useful rate of reaction information on
using copper as a catalyst to decompose hydrogen peroxide is it is heated up
first. I know that it did not work out for John's design but I have seen
warnings that imply that copper can cause runaway decomposion of H2O2.

AIUI, copper rapidly corrodes in H2O2, unlike silver.
I did wonder about using a section of thick copper pipe to feed a catalyst
bed.

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote in message ...
Does anyone know on where I can get useful rate of reaction information on
using copper as a catalyst to decompose hydrogen peroxide is it is heated up
first. I know that it did not work out for John's design but I have seen
warnings that imply that copper can cause runaway decomposion of H2O2.

Earl Colby Pottinger

PS. A google search just find class experiments. And yes I do plan to try
out some experiments myself but some hard figures on what to expect would
help too.

Even though copper is a "class D -- severre effect" material, you
could pour 90% peroxide in a copper flask and only get a steady stream
of bubbles. Obviously unsuitable for a storage tank, but not
effective enough for a rocket catalyst. We had hoped that the
reactivity might increase at a super-linear rate with increased
temperature, but even with torch heating it never seemed to be really
reacting with 50%. At a hot enough temperature it just vaporized the
liquid like hot stainless or aluminum would, rather than decomposing
it like silver or platinum does.

We did some tests early on involving dropping brass fittings in small
beakers of 98% peroxide, and all it would do is give a few bubbles,
not even a steady fizz. We left it that way overnight, and it never
did have a thermal runaway.

I tend to believe that most peroxide accidents are just pressure
vessel accidents due to oxygen released at a moderate rate, rather
than large quantities of concentrated peroxide going off like in a
rocket engine.

John Carmack

Ian Stirling :

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
Does anyone know on where I can get useful rate of reaction information
on
using copper as a catalyst to decompose hydrogen peroxide is it is heated
up
first. I know that it did not work out for John's design but I have seen
warnings that imply that copper can cause runaway decomposion of H2O2.

AIUI, copper rapidly corrodes in H2O2, unlike silver.
I did wonder about using a section of thick copper pipe to feed a catalyst
bed.

Thanks for the tip. I did not know that.

Earl Colby Pottinger
--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp