terraforming an GM

if we can genectically modify crops to resist the cold then what is stopping
us from creating a plant that could survive on the surafce of mars ?...

maybe we could modify it to be more effeicient at turning co2 into o2 as
well.

--
Eps

"Eps" writes:

if we can genectically modify crops to resist the cold then what
is stopping us from creating a plant that could survive on the
surafce of mars ?...

There is a difference between modifying a plant so that it is capable of
resisting relatively mild frost damage, and modifying a plant to resist
temperatures far colder than the coldest spot on Earth, and pressures
so low that ice evaporates before it gets warm enough to melt.


maybe we could modify it to be more effeicient at turning co2 into o2 as
well.

Plants are already pretty good at that. And converting 6 millibars of CO2
into 4.4 millibars of O2 doesn't solve the main problem that there isn't
nearly enough air to begin with --- plus it decreases the greenhouse effect,
which is a Bad Idea on a planet that is already far too cold for Earth-type life.


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

"V-Man" wrote in message
...
what is stopping
us from creating a plant that could survive on the surafce of mars ?...

Th impossibility of growing crops in sub-zero (0 degrees F) temperatures
and
60+ mph winds.

Your answer is an assumption. The plant just has to produce its own
antifreeze (as some do), be highly salt tolerant, and find a suitable niche
on Mars in which to thrive.
It would be difficult. But not impossible. Nothing is impossible when humans
are put to the challenge.

Nathan

"Blurrt" writes:

"V-Man" wrote in message
...
what is stopping
us from creating a plant that could survive on the surafce of mars ?...

The impossibility of growing crops in sub-zero (0 degrees F) temperatures
and 60+ mph winds.

Your answer is an assumption. The plant just has to produce its own
antifreeze (as some do), be highly salt tolerant, and find a suitable niche
on Mars in which to thrive.

All known life is water-based. There are practical limits to how far an
"antifreeze" can depress the freezing point of water, before it it is more
antifreeze than water. Martian night-time temperatures plummet to -140 C;
they are so cold that CO2 can freeze out of the atmosphere. Good luck
trying to find an "antifreeze" that will keep water frome freezing solid
at those temperatures. I think you will find that you will need to base
martian life on something other than water, unless it lives deep underground
--- in which case it is =NOT= going to be photosynthetic !!!


It would be difficult. But not impossible. Nothing is impossible when humans
are put to the challenge.

That oft-repeated claim is quite bluntly bull$#!+. There are numerous
things than are _PROVABLY IMPOSSIBLE_, e.g., solving the "Halting Problem"
or squaring a circle and trisecting an angle using only a compass and a
straightedge. Anyone who thinks otherwise is suffering from a combination
of profound ignorance and severe delusions of grandeur.


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

In article ,
Gordon D. Pusch wrote:
All known life is water-based. There are practical limits to how far an
"antifreeze" can depress the freezing point of water, before it it is more
antifreeze than water. Martian night-time temperatures plummet to -140 C;
they are so cold that CO2 can freeze out of the atmosphere. Good luck
trying to find an "antifreeze" that will keep water frome freezing solid
at those temperatures. I think you will find that you will need to base
martian life on something other than water...

Not necessarily. There is no fundamental reason why you can't have
warm-blooded plants, which use metabolic heat (and insulation) to keep
their interiors warm and whose fluids thus don't have to handle the full
range of ambient temperatures. (It's marginally conceivable to use
passive heat storage to the same effect, given really good insulation --
biological aerogels, anyone?)

This would, mind you, require much more radical genetic engineering than
anything done to date.

It would be difficult. But not impossible. Nothing is impossible when humans
are put to the challenge.

That oft-repeated claim is quite bluntly bull$#!+. There are numerous
things than are _PROVABLY IMPOSSIBLE_, e.g., solving the "Halting Problem"
or squaring a circle and trisecting an angle using only a compass and a
straightedge...

However, most of those provably-impossible feats require very strict
problem definitions. It actually *is* possible to trisect an angle with
compass and straightedge... by cheating, using a real straightedge in ways
that violate the strict classical definition. Moreover, even under the
classical definition, while it is not possible to exactly trisect an
angle, it *is* possible to trisect one to any desired finite accuracy.
When we're discussing real engineering as opposed to mathematical
problems, rather often the problem definition is imprecise enough to
permit creative solutions, if you don't let yourself be shackled by the
arbitrary constraints of an oversimplified model.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |

Henry Spencer wrote:

In article ,
Gordon D. Pusch wrote:


All known life is water-based. There are practical limits to how far an
"antifreeze" can depress the freezing point of water, before it it is more
antifreeze than water. Martian night-time temperatures plummet to -140 C;
they are so cold that CO2 can freeze out of the atmosphere. Good luck
trying to find an "antifreeze" that will keep water frome freezing solid
at those temperatures. I think you will find that you will need to base
martian life on something other than water...



Not necessarily. There is no fundamental reason why you can't have
warm-blooded plants, which use metabolic heat (and insulation) to keep
their interiors warm and whose fluids thus don't have to handle the full
range of ambient temperatures. (It's marginally conceivable to use
passive heat storage to the same effect, given really good insulation --
biological aerogels, anyone?)

It might be possible, but you would need your biological aerogel to
allow gas exchange
which might reduce its insulating properties. Maybe the insulation would
allow gas
exchange only above a given temperature.

This would, mind you, require much more radical genetic engineering than
anything done to date.

Indeed.

Alain Fournier

In article , Henry Spencer
wrote:

Not necessarily. There is no fundamental reason why you can't have
warm-blooded plants, which use metabolic heat (and insulation) to keep
their interiors warm and whose fluids thus don't have to handle the full
range of ambient temperatures. (It's marginally conceivable to use
passive heat storage to the same effect, given really good insulation --
biological aerogels, anyone?)

And, indeed, there are warm-blooded plants. Not throughout their
lives, just for a few days at a time, I think when they're blooming.
Energy storage chemical that they burn when they want to get warm is
something salicylic, IIRC.

http://www.scienceshorts.com/020917.htm
Plants with the ability to warm themselves include philodendron, Jack
in the Pulpit, Skunk Cabbage and many members of the Lily family.
Experiments on some species of philodendron found their temperatures
soared as high as 38 degrees Celsius when the environmental temperature
was still a cool 4 degrees. When the surrounding temperature increased,
their rate of heat production decreased.

--
David M. Palmer (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)