was June 21 an X Prize attempt?

First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

"Tamas Feher" wrote in
:

First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

Shirt-sleeve; no ejection seats.


--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

Shirt-sleeve; no ejection seats.

Holy ****! They should rename the craft to "Second Soyuz-11". Or
"Challenger-2" maybe? What if one of those pretty round nose windows
suffers a General Protection Fault? I saw a photo on CNN, where the
pilot wore fighter-jet style helmet and oxygen mask. That won't save him
above 12-18 km, they need a full-body compression suit and closed
helmet. What if the stylish pivoting wings break off mid-air? The guy is
NOT going to get out of the spinning wreck under his own power.

So I promptly sent the following e-mail to the X-prize board:

"Dear Ansari X-Prize Comitte,

Scaled Composite's flight was a success, they finally reached 100km. But
the spaceship suffered some severe malfunctions in-flight (uncontrolled
roll, trim failure, violent expansion caused buckling in the rear
fuselage). I think the pilot was lucky to survive.

Here is the question:
X-prize attempts must fly with three persons onboard or one human pilot
and two weight dummies. Would you allow omitting the two weight dummies
if Scaled Composite installed additional crew safety measures for the
remaining single pilot?

I mean things like having an ejection seat and true spacesuite for the
pilot, as opposed to the current shirt-sleeve environment. Considering
that a proven capable ejection seat, like the russian Zvezda K-36DM
weights about 225 kg (~500lbs) fully equipped, that would be no cheating
with regards to mass / thrust requirements. One K36 would provide
full-envelope single crew survival up to Mach3 and 30,000 meters max.
height.

I do feel Ansari X-Prize comitte should encourage all participants to
fly with governmental-grade safety measures in place (especially full
vacuum rated spacesuits and crew bail-out equipment). Shirt-sleeve
environment has historically killed ten astronauts in state-run space
programs (Soyuz-11 and Challenger). The last thing you need is people
spelling your name like "ANother Silly Astronaut Roasted In-flight
X-prize". Especially not with CNN and NBC live coverage.

Thanks for your attention, Sincerely: Thomas Feher."

You loser. Get some balls.




"Tamas Feher" wrote in message
...
First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

Shirt-sleeve; no ejection seats.

Holy ****! They should rename the craft to "Second Soyuz-11". Or
"Challenger-2" maybe? What if one of those pretty round nose windows
suffers a General Protection Fault? I saw a photo on CNN, where the
pilot wore fighter-jet style helmet and oxygen mask. That won't save him
above 12-18 km, they need a full-body compression suit and closed
helmet. What if the stylish pivoting wings break off mid-air? The guy is
NOT going to get out of the spinning wreck under his own power.

So I promptly sent the following e-mail to the X-prize board:

"Dear Ansari X-Prize Comitte,

Scaled Composite's flight was a success, they finally reached 100km. But
the spaceship suffered some severe malfunctions in-flight (uncontrolled
roll, trim failure, violent expansion caused buckling in the rear
fuselage). I think the pilot was lucky to survive.

Here is the question:
X-prize attempts must fly with three persons onboard or one human pilot
and two weight dummies. Would you allow omitting the two weight dummies
if Scaled Composite installed additional crew safety measures for the
remaining single pilot?

I mean things like having an ejection seat and true spacesuite for the
pilot, as opposed to the current shirt-sleeve environment. Considering
that a proven capable ejection seat, like the russian Zvezda K-36DM
weights about 225 kg (~500lbs) fully equipped, that would be no cheating
with regards to mass / thrust requirements. One K36 would provide
full-envelope single crew survival up to Mach3 and 30,000 meters max.
height.

I do feel Ansari X-Prize comitte should encourage all participants to
fly with governmental-grade safety measures in place (especially full
vacuum rated spacesuits and crew bail-out equipment). Shirt-sleeve
environment has historically killed ten astronauts in state-run space
programs (Soyuz-11 and Challenger). The last thing you need is people
spelling your name like "ANother Silly Astronaut Roasted In-flight
X-prize". Especially not with CNN and NBC live coverage.

Thanks for your attention, Sincerely: Thomas Feher."

"Tamas Feher" wrote in message ...
First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

Shirt-sleeve; no ejection seats.

Holy ****! They should rename the craft to "Second Soyuz-11". Or
"Challenger-2" maybe? What if one of those pretty round nose windows
suffers a General Protection Fault? I saw a photo on CNN, where the
pilot wore fighter-jet style helmet and oxygen mask. That won't save him
above 12-18 km, they need a full-body compression suit and closed
helmet. What if the stylish pivoting wings break off mid-air? The guy is
NOT going to get out of the spinning wreck under his own power.

So I promptly sent the following e-mail to the X-prize board:

"Dear Ansari X-Prize Comitte,

Scaled Composite's flight was a success, they finally reached 100km. But
the spaceship suffered some severe malfunctions in-flight (uncontrolled
roll, trim failure, violent expansion caused buckling in the rear
fuselage). I think the pilot was lucky to survive.

Here is the question:
X-prize attempts must fly with three persons onboard or one human pilot
and two weight dummies. Would you allow omitting the two weight dummies
if Scaled Composite installed additional crew safety measures for the
remaining single pilot?

I mean things like having an ejection seat and true spacesuite for the
pilot, as opposed to the current shirt-sleeve environment. Considering
that a proven capable ejection seat, like the russian Zvezda K-36DM
weights about 225 kg (~500lbs) fully equipped, that would be no cheating
with regards to mass / thrust requirements. One K36 would provide
full-envelope single crew survival up to Mach3 and 30,000 meters max.
height.

I do feel Ansari X-Prize comitte should encourage all participants to
fly with governmental-grade safety measures in place (especially full
vacuum rated spacesuits and crew bail-out equipment). Shirt-sleeve
environment has historically killed ten astronauts in state-run space
programs (Soyuz-11 and Challenger). The last thing you need is people
spelling your name like "ANother Silly Astronaut Roasted In-flight
X-prize". Especially not with CNN and NBC live coverage.

Thanks for your attention, Sincerely: Thomas Feher."


The goal is commercial space tourism - hence the shirt sleeve
environment. The issue is making the spacecraft safe, not adding
weight, suits, etc that will discourage the paying tourist. If it
can't be done right, it should not be done at all, and the
SpaceShipOne environment is the right way to do it. The X-Prize
people have nothing to do with design and should not and cannot tell
designers how to do their job.

In article ,
SpaceCentral wrote:
The goal is commercial space tourism - hence the shirt sleeve
environment. The issue is making the spacecraft safe, not adding
weight, suits, etc that will discourage the paying tourist. If it
can't be done right, it should not be done at all...

While I mostly agree, it's worth noting that *test flights* of aircraft
which are meant to *eventually* carry passengers often include safety gear
beyond what the operational version will carry. The whole point of doing
test flights is that you want to find any nasty surprises before the bird
enters operational service.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

"Tamas Feher" writes:

First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?



Neither. It's architected and designed like a civilian airplane.

No space-suits or ejections seats in your typical (or even atypical)
Cessna.

--
#include disclaimer.std /* I don't speak for IBM ... */
/* Heck, I don't even speak for myself */
/* Don't believe me ? Ask my wife :-) */
Richard D. Latham

Tamas Feher wrote:

First off, major congrats to the Scaled, Vulcan and SpaceDev
crews. I saw the CNN web video, and it was great to see SS1
flying like that.

Do they use spacesuits or just shirt-sleeve? Are there ejection seats
installed in the vehicles?

Shirt-sleeve; no ejection seats.

Holy ****! They should rename the craft to "Second Soyuz-11".

A valve problem that even the crew identified, but couldn't stop in
time.

Or
"Challenger-2" maybe?

Pressure suits wouldn've helped them (at least until impact). It's
never been a secret that you can't do ejection from the shuttle for more
than two people. At some point, you simply have to design a pressure
hull you have confidence in. You don't eject from a wide bodied jet,
either. And fighters have them because they're intended to fly in
environments where someone may be actively *trying* to destroy you.

What if one of those pretty round nose windows
suffers a General Protection Fault? I saw a photo on CNN, where the
pilot wore fighter-jet style helmet and oxygen mask. That won't save him
above 12-18 km, they need a full-body compression suit and closed
helmet. What if the stylish pivoting wings break off mid-air? The guy is
NOT going to get out of the spinning wreck under his own power.

Right. So you either fly fools, or design a decent vehicle where the
probability of that is very low. I'm assuming Rutan did the latter.
There are still plenty of failure modes where a pressure suit still
wouldn't help you. (Columbia, for instance.)

So I promptly sent the following e-mail to the X-prize board:

"Dear Ansari X-Prize Comitte,

Scaled Composite's flight was a success, they finally reached 100km. But
the spaceship suffered some severe malfunctions in-flight (uncontrolled
roll, trim failure, violent expansion caused buckling in the rear
fuselage). I think the pilot was lucky to survive.

And had the ship come apart near 100km, what? See my previous
comment.


Here is the question:
X-prize attempts must fly with three persons onboard or one human pilot
and two weight dummies. Would you allow omitting the two weight dummies
if Scaled Composite installed additional crew safety measures for the
remaining single pilot?

Remember, this is meant to be a technological precursor to a tourist
vehicle. Where are the alleged tourists?

I mean things like having an ejection seat and true spacesuite for the
pilot, as opposed to the current shirt-sleeve environment. Considering
that a proven capable ejection seat, like the russian Zvezda K-36DM
weights about 225 kg (~500lbs) fully equipped, that would be no cheating
with regards to mass / thrust requirements. One K36 would provide
full-envelope single crew survival up to Mach3 and 30,000 meters max.
height.

I do feel Ansari X-Prize comitte should encourage all participants to
fly with governmental-grade safety measures in place (especially full
vacuum rated spacesuits and crew bail-out equipment). Shirt-sleeve
environment has historically killed ten astronauts in state-run space
programs (Soyuz-11 and Challenger). The last thing you need is people
spelling your name like "ANother Silly Astronaut Roasted In-flight
X-prize". Especially not with CNN and NBC live coverage.

The entrants should decide themselves what degree of risk is
acceptable. These are not X-vehilces in the old NASA/USAF sense.If you
can't ddesign an acceptably (in the commercial airliner sense)
shirt-sleeve vehicle, then the demonstration becomes "Another Flight By
A Right-Stuff Test Pilot That I'll Never Be Able To Fly With."

Yeah, it still would've been acheived privately, but that alone
wasn't the point, or Scaled could quit today.

This, after all, is why we have incremental testing. I'm confident
Scaled closely monitored the ship's performance on lower, slower
flights, examined it for structural weaknesses, etc., gradually building
confidence. Just as you would for most new aircraft designs. You can't
do that with government spacecraft, so far. Except for Mercury-Redstone,
you went for a mimimum LEO flight the first time. Indeed, NASA hopes it
never *has* to try a shuttle Return To Launch Site (RTLS) maneuver, as
it's believed to be highly risky, and only preferable to certain death.
If they can at least abort across the Atlantic to Africa, they'd rather.

Thanks for your attention, Sincerely: Thomas Feher."


--

You know what to remove, to reply....

"Richard D. Latham" wrote in message
...

No space-suits or ejection seats in your typical (or even atypical)
Cessna.

Or Concorde, for that matter.

In article ,
Richard D. Latham wrote:
No space-suits or ejections seats in your typical (or even atypical)
Cessna.

However, early testing of things like business jets sometimes includes
escape aids like tractor-rocket systems (which were considered as an
alternative to the shuttle escape pole), because the test pilots may well
encounter situations which the regular users will not.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |