Could the IAU *officially* assign star names for a fee?

This thread discussed the companies that claim to name a star for a
fee:

From: "Brian Miller"
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:40 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 13 2004 10:26 am
Subject: Naming a Star companies; NOT officially recognized
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6631bbb1cf7b8

These companies and the names they assign have no official standing:

http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html

On this page the IAU mentions they use a numbering system for stars
because it makes cataloging and finding them easier. But there are
stars that do have names such as Barnard's star.
If names *were* officially assigned to very many stars that really
would not impact astronomers research. They could still use their
numerical naming conventions in their research.
So could the IAU say offer to officially assign the name of a star in
perpetuity for say a $1000 fee? At least one of these star naming
companies claims to have had 1 million customers. At $1,000 each that
could amount to $1 billion. I'm thinking about this going strictly into
astronomy: building new telescopes, funding new space missions etc.
One problem might be suppose a couple of hundred years hence we visit
these systems. You might want to assign the name of the star to an
explorer who first visits it. Or who colonizes a planet in the system.
A more current problem is that you would have cases where someone
would want to name a star "Adolf Hitler". It would be easy to filter
out these requests. But some would not be so easy for an international
union. Would "Karl Marx" be acceptable? Would the "Josef Stalin"? There
are many other such examples.
Note also that world-wide this could conceivable be a yearly income on
this level. For a billion dollars yearly going stricly into
astronomical research I think many astronomers would accept the idea of
their favorite stars being assigned individual names.


Bob Clark

In sci.physics Robert Clark wrote:
This thread discussed the companies that claim to name a star for a
fee:

From: "Brian Miller"
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:40 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 13 2004 10:26 am
Subject: Naming a Star companies; NOT officially recognized
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6631bbb1cf7b8

These companies and the names they assign have no official standing:

http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html

On this page the IAU mentions they use a numbering system for stars
because it makes cataloging and finding them easier. But there are
stars that do have names such as Barnard's star.
If names *were* officially assigned to very many stars that really
would not impact astronomers research. They could still use their

Is it possible for an amateur to discover a star any more?
Can a (say) 1m dish staring at an area for 8*100 hours discover new stars?

Even if you did, there would have to be something unusual about the star in
order to make it important enough to recognize the "discoverer" of the star.
It's just like most of humanity, the vast majority of which will not leave
enough of an imprint on history to warrant even a footnote in the books.
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It don't mean a thing
unless it has that certain "je ne sais quoi"
Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Robert Clark wrote:
This thread discussed the companies that claim to name a star for a
fee:

From: "Brian Miller"
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:40 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 13 2004 10:26 am
Subject: Naming a Star companies; NOT officially recognized
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6631bbb1cf7b8

These companies and the names they assign have no official standing:

http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html

On this page the IAU mentions they use a numbering system for stars
because it makes cataloging and finding them easier. But there are
stars that do have names such as Barnard's star.
If names *were* officially assigned to very many stars that really
would not impact astronomers research. They could still use their

Is it possible for an amateur to discover a star any more?
Can a (say) 1m dish staring at an area for 8*100 hours discover new stars?

You can find an unknown and unusual star! There are lots of hidden
treasures in the online plate archives. For example no one noticed that
a new nebulous star entered the scene for many years until I found it
by blink comparision. A star born from the dark nebula, "Persson's
star" (Sky & Telescope, March 2005, p.24). Also Jay McNeil found an new
nebula with star in 2004.

Roger Persson

Bob...

Robert Clark wrote:
So could the IAU say offer to officially assign the name of a star
in
perpetuity for say a $1000 fee?

I researched this very question a couple years ago, asking the
officials on the appropirate IAU committee. the answer is that not only
is the IAU not interested assigning common names (for $$ or otherwise),
but also that the IAU has actually never voted to approve any of the
*existing* common names (e.g. Deneb).

the IAU style book does recommend using the Yale Bright Star Catalog as
a source for common names, though.

hope that helps,
Kelly

Kelly Beatty wrote:

I researched this very question a couple years ago, asking the
officials on the appropirate IAU committee. the answer is that not only
is the IAU not interested assigning common names (for $$ or otherwise),
but also that the IAU has actually never voted to approve any of the
*existing* common names (e.g. Deneb).

the IAU style book does recommend using the Yale Bright Star Catalog as
a source for common names, though.

hope that helps,
Kelly


Thanks Kelly.
-Sam

"Kelly Beatty" wrote in message roups.com...
Bob...

Robert Clark wrote:
So could the IAU say offer to officially assign the name of a star
in
perpetuity for say a $1000 fee?

I researched this very question a couple years ago, asking the
officials on the appropirate IAU committee. the answer is that not only
is the IAU not interested assigning common names (for $$ or otherwise),
but also that the IAU has actually never voted to approve any of the
*existing* common names (e.g. Deneb).

the IAU style book does recommend using the Yale Bright Star Catalog as
a source for common names, though.

hope that helps,
Kelly
Thanks for the info. Sounds like they never studied the question. The
first thing to do would be to conduct a poll of professional
astronomers: if it would raise 1 billion dollars YEARLY devoted to
astronomical research alone would you be in favor of assigning
personal names to stars? It it raised $100 million yearly?
Then they need to have a top notch marketing study done about what
would be the appropriate marketing and pricing policies.


Bob Clark

On 6 Mar 2005 07:05:57 -0800, (Robert Clark)
wrote:

Thanks for the info. Sounds like they never studied the question. The
first thing to do would be to conduct a poll of professional
astronomers: if it would raise 1 billion dollars YEARLY devoted to
astronomical research alone would you be in favor of assigning
personal names to stars? It it raised $100 million yearly?

I think it's a long stretch from an industry that has "sold" maybe 1
million stars total (over many years) for around $50 each, and something
that can generate millions of dollars per year (let alone a billion!)
for research.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

The key is that this really would be the official name and this is the
name that will be used by astronomers in perpetuity.
Most educated persons know that these star naming companies have no
official capacity. If the officially sanctioned name was available for
a fee then you would have wealthy people willing to pay larger prices
for the brightest stars. Also, keep in mind this will be operated by a
non-profit organization on the order of the AAAS so people will know
it's analogous to donating to a charity, with the accompanying tax
deductibility status, unlike with the star naming companies.
Also since this is the official name, in the computer programs giving
star locations these names for the stars would be listed along with
their numerical designation. For example in the thread on sci.astro
some astronomers who operated observatories or planetariums mentioned
how disappointed or angry people became when the astronomers couldn't
find "their" star in the star finding program or they couldn't locate
it in the sky. With the IAU official designation the names would be
included in the computer programs with accurate coordinates. You might
also include a short biography of the person who named the star when
you pulled up the star name.
Since these are the official designations of the stars you would want
to include these names with any scientific publications discussing the
star. It might be too long to include both the numerical designation
and the personal name every time the star is mentioned in a paper, so
you might use only the numerical name in the paper itself, but at the
end give an acknowledgement to the person it's named after. It might be
phrased for example like: "The authors wish to thank John T. Smith for
supporting the further advancement of astronomy, and in particular our
study of John T. Smith's star."
You could even have a greater premium being charged for stars that
undergo the greatest study and receive the greatest mention in
scientific publications. And you could have a notice sent, as part of
the support fee, to the supporter whenever a paper appears discussing
their star with a short description written at popular science level on
why that study is important.
With a potential in flow I say in the hundreds of millions of dollars
or more *yearly* to astronomy, I think most astronomers would be in
favor of such a small acknowledgement at the end of their papers. And
in absolutely the truest sense those supporters WILL be paying for that
astronomers research since the total amount would go not only to
building more observatories and instruments but also into supporting
scientists research.
You might also allow the supporter to choose a star being studied by
universities nearby. So when they receive acknowledgement of a paper
studying their star they could go to open public viewing dates at the
university's observatory and ask to see their star.


Bob Clark

On 6 Mar 2005 08:57:39 -0800, "Robert Clark"
wrote:

The key is that this really would be the official name and this is the
name that will be used by astronomers in perpetuity...

Bob-

I understand the distinction you are making. I don't know what
"official" really means- or how important it is to potential buyers.
Today, very few of the nomenclature systems in common use have any kind
of IAU sanction- because there is no need. Most stars are identified by
multiple alphanumeric designators, completely different depending on the
catalog. Those catalogs are widely used, but for the most part don't
have any kind of "official" status. You can put together your own
catalog of stars, and if it has some unique feature it will be used
professionally, and show up in SIMBAD, NED and other searchers with no
IAU involvement at all.

If the IAU were to create a sanctioned catalog for stars that identified
them by an individual's name, what would change? No astronomer will ever
use that catalog, given that any star of interest will already be in
another, much more useful catalog. I doubt that SIMBAD and the other
searchers would bother adding the catalog. No scientific paper is going
to use the purchased name.

So the marketing questions are, will anybody actually pay more than what
they already pay to ISR for a star name? Will anyone who wouldn't buy a
star from ISR do so from IAU? My guess is that by the time you allow for
the cost of actually running the program, it wouldn't generate enough
revenue to be worthwhile.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com