'Guardian' (London) falls for dead cosmonaut website

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...299695,00.html Lost in space


At the height of the space race, two Italian brothers set up a listening
post in the hills above Turin and began probing the heavens for US and
Soviet unmanned satellites. One day in early 1961, weeks before Yuri
Gagarin's epic space flight, the Judica-Cordiglia brothers were startled by
a sound that differed from the usual bleeps of the unmanned satellites they
were used to tracking. According to the website Lostcosmonauts.com, the
brothers clearly heard "the beat of a failing heart and the last gasping
breaths of a dying cosmonaut". The incredible story of a failed Soviet
mission unfolds on the site, and adds to the archive of unknown Soviet space
missions.


----- Original Message -----
From: Francis French
To: '
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: FW: Inaccurate science story in the Guardian




Hello Jim,

Below is a message I just sent to the Editor of the UK's "Guardian"
newspaper. Perhaps you'd like to join me in sending them a letter / E-mail?

Thanks,

Francis.

Francis French
Education Programs Coordinator
Reuben H Fleet Science Center
PO Box 33303, San Diego, California 92163
www.rhfleet.org
Tel: (619) 238 1233 ext: 808
Fax: (619) 685 5771
E-mail:



-----Original Message-----
From: Francis French
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:20 AM
To: '
Subject: Inaccurate science story in the Guardian



Dear Ms. Bell,

I am a longtime reader of The Guardian, both in print form and, since I have
moved to the USA, the online edition, as a reliable source of news. I was
therefore appalled to see the folllowing story on your Web Watch page:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...299695,00.html

which I understand is also repeated in your print edition, regarding the
"Lost Cosmonauts" website.

The claims of the website owners have long been proven to be utterly
ludicrous. While the Soviets did cover up names of cosmonauts who never flew
for many years, and downplayed details of failed missions, US tracking
stations knew immediately of any true Soviet manned spaceflights. It has
also now been almost 15 years since a clear and comprehensive history of all
Soviet space activities began emerging from the former USSR, and there has
never been any evidence whatsoever in this enormous body of material proof
to support any of the claims made on the website. In fact, they have been
comprehensively disproven.

If Sean Dodson had done even the most basic amount of journalism - such as
doing a google web seach on the subject - he would immediately have come
across sites like this:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html

Which clearly and comprehensively disprove the claims. There are many other
works, such as the work of respected space historian James Oberg, which do
the same.

I am disheartened to see that Mr. Dodson not only chose to highlight this
website in your normally accurate newspaper, but also described it as "adds
to the archive of unknown Soviet space missions." The Guardian has long been
a good source of accurate journalism, and Mr. Dodson suggesting such
nonsense does your newspaper a descredit.

I hope that you will do the right thing, and publish a retraction. At the
least, I hope you pass this message on to Mr. Dodson and request that he
does at least a modicum of research on items he highlights in his column
before including them. After all, there are plenty of websites stating that
humans never landed on the Moon and offering "proof." Does the Guardian plan
to promote them also?

I look forward to a reply from you and / or Mr. Dodson.
Thank you,
Francis French.

Francis French
Reuben H Fleet Science Center
PO Box 33303, San Diego, California 92163
www.rhfleet.org
Tel: (619) 238 1233 ext: 808
Fax: (619) 685 5771
E-mail:



----------



Jim sent off this email too:



Dear Editor:

When confronted with a heaven-sent (or outer-space-sent) opportunity to
unveil some purportedly hidden chapter in space history, I urge your editors
to be more prudent in looking around to see if it's not some old lost
science fiction book chapter. In the struggle to separate fact from fantasy,
please put it a little more effort to be on the right side. An obvious place
to start should have been the headquarters of the British Interplanetary
Society in London, surely the most prestigious amateur space history
organization on Earth (and possibly the galaxy). They might try to persuade
you, as I would, that the 'lost cosmonauts myth' is a long-discredited piece
of space folklore, based loosely on some sincere but misguided radio
listeners, and many misinterpreted clues. It was a legitimate possibility in
the bad old days of the Space Race, some historians doubted it even then
(me, for example), but post-Soviet access to Russia has fully and finally
discredited it.

Jim Oberg
Houston, Texas
www.jamesoberg.com

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:48:16 GMT, "Jim Oberg"
wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...299695,00.html Lost in space

....Boy, if this doesn't bring Geo out of hiding, nothing will :-) :-)

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Bad Weather" wrote in message
...
THAT STORY WAS TRUE. I HEARD THAT THE ITALIAN BROTHERS EVEN RECORDED THE
HIGH-PITCHED GIRLISH DEATH SCREAMS

plonk!

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:47:25 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
wrote:

"Wad Blather" wrote in message
...
THAT STORY WAS TRUE. I HEARD THAT THE ITALIAN BROTHERS EVEN RECORDED THE
HIGH-PITCHED GIRLISH DEATH SCREAMS

plonk!

....You only just *now* sent this dip**** to Killfile Hell??

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

THAT STORY WAS TRUE. I HEARD THAT THE ITALIAN BROTHERS EVEN RECORDED THE
HIGH-PITCHED GIRLISH DEATH SCREAMS


"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...299695,00.html Lost in space


At the height of the space race, two Italian brothers set up a listening
post in the hills above Turin and began probing the heavens for US and
Soviet unmanned satellites. One day in early 1961, weeks before Yuri
Gagarin's epic space flight, the Judica-Cordiglia brothers were startled
by
a sound that differed from the usual bleeps of the unmanned satellites
they
were used to tracking. According to the website Lostcosmonauts.com, the
brothers clearly heard "the beat of a failing heart and the last gasping
breaths of a dying cosmonaut". The incredible story of a failed Soviet
mission unfolds on the site, and adds to the archive of unknown Soviet
space
missions.


----- Original Message -----
From: Francis French
To: '
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: FW: Inaccurate science story in the Guardian




Hello Jim,

Below is a message I just sent to the Editor of the UK's "Guardian"
newspaper. Perhaps you'd like to join me in sending them a letter /
E-mail?

Thanks,

Francis.

Francis French
Education Programs Coordinator
Reuben H Fleet Science Center
PO Box 33303, San Diego, California 92163
www.rhfleet.org
Tel: (619) 238 1233 ext: 808
Fax: (619) 685 5771
E-mail:



-----Original Message-----
From: Francis French
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:20 AM
To: '
Subject: Inaccurate science story in the Guardian



Dear Ms. Bell,

I am a longtime reader of The Guardian, both in print form and, since I
have
moved to the USA, the online edition, as a reliable source of news. I was
therefore appalled to see the folllowing story on your Web Watch page:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/sto...299695,00.html

which I understand is also repeated in your print edition, regarding the
"Lost Cosmonauts" website.

The claims of the website owners have long been proven to be utterly
ludicrous. While the Soviets did cover up names of cosmonauts who never
flew
for many years, and downplayed details of failed missions, US tracking
stations knew immediately of any true Soviet manned spaceflights. It has
also now been almost 15 years since a clear and comprehensive history of
all
Soviet space activities began emerging from the former USSR, and there has
never been any evidence whatsoever in this enormous body of material proof
to support any of the claims made on the website. In fact, they have been
comprehensively disproven.

If Sean Dodson had done even the most basic amount of journalism - such as
doing a google web seach on the subject - he would immediately have come
across sites like this:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html

Which clearly and comprehensively disprove the claims. There are many
other
works, such as the work of respected space historian James Oberg, which do
the same.

I am disheartened to see that Mr. Dodson not only chose to highlight this
website in your normally accurate newspaper, but also described it as
"adds
to the archive of unknown Soviet space missions." The Guardian has long
been
a good source of accurate journalism, and Mr. Dodson suggesting such
nonsense does your newspaper a descredit.

I hope that you will do the right thing, and publish a retraction. At the
least, I hope you pass this message on to Mr. Dodson and request that he
does at least a modicum of research on items he highlights in his column
before including them. After all, there are plenty of websites stating
that
humans never landed on the Moon and offering "proof." Does the Guardian
plan
to promote them also?

I look forward to a reply from you and / or Mr. Dodson.
Thank you,
Francis French.

Francis French
Reuben H Fleet Science Center
PO Box 33303, San Diego, California 92163
www.rhfleet.org
Tel: (619) 238 1233 ext: 808
Fax: (619) 685 5771
E-mail:



----------



Jim sent off this email too:



Dear Editor:

When confronted with a heaven-sent (or outer-space-sent) opportunity to
unveil some purportedly hidden chapter in space history, I urge your
editors
to be more prudent in looking around to see if it's not some old lost
science fiction book chapter. In the struggle to separate fact from
fantasy,
please put it a little more effort to be on the right side. An obvious
place
to start should have been the headquarters of the British Interplanetary
Society in London, surely the most prestigious amateur space history
organization on Earth (and possibly the galaxy). They might try to
persuade
you, as I would, that the 'lost cosmonauts myth' is a long-discredited
piece
of space folklore, based loosely on some sincere but misguided radio
listeners, and many misinterpreted clues. It was a legitimate possibility
in
the bad old days of the Space Race, some historians doubted it even then
(me, for example), but post-Soviet access to Russia has fully and finally
discredited it.

Jim Oberg
Houston, Texas
www.jamesoberg.com

OM wrote:

...Boy, if this doesn't bring Geo out of hiding, nothing will :-) :-)


Rumor has it he was "Taken Up" by the mystic powers of the Holy Shroud
of Turin...either that, or "Taken In"... I forget the exact phrasing.

Pat

"Bad Weather" wrote in message ...
THAT STORY WAS TRUE. I HEARD THAT THE ITALIAN BROTHERS EVEN RECORDED THE
HIGH-PITCHED GIRLISH DEATH SCREAMS


I'm having trouble believing that!