Time of Death (51-L)

Given the most favorable case for survival, and assuming that enough
Challenger remains were or could have been immediately recovered by
search and rescue teams, for how long after the main blast could an
autopsy have precisely determined time of death?

Would such an autopsy have been necessary within a matter of days, or
hours? Could it have determined time of death to the nearest minute?

John Maxson wrote:

Given the most favorable case for survival, and assuming that enough
Challenger remains were or could have been immediately recovered by
search and rescue teams, for how long after the main blast could an
autopsy have precisely determined time of death?

Would such an autopsy have been necessary within a matter of days, or
hours? Could it have determined time of death to the nearest minute?

To what end?

Given the most favorable case for survival, and assuming that enough
Challenger remains were or could have been immediately recovered by
search and rescue teams, for how long after the main blast could an
autopsy have precisely determined time of death?

Would such an autopsy have been necessary within a matter of days, or
hours? Could it have determined time of death to the nearest minute?

To what end?


Its already known. The time oif impact of the crew cabin to the water.

We know some crew managed to turn on their emergency air supply. So they likely
klived to impact. At the speeds involved no one could of survived.

kegwasher wrote:

John Maxson wrote:
Given the most favorable case for survival, and assuming that enough
Challenger remains were or could have been immediately recovered by
search and rescue teams, for how long after the main blast could an
autopsy have precisely determined time of death?

Would such an autopsy have been necessary within a matter of days, or
hours? Could it have determined time of death to the nearest minute?

To what end?

A few days ago, I received some new autopsy information from a very
reliable 51-L eyewitness. We tried to put that information into time
perspective with the rest of the cover-up on an engineering basis, but
neither of us have enough medical background to properly evaluate the
total hours elapsed (revealed now for the first time). These events
took place at Patrick AFB, much sooner than I had been aware.

John Maxson wrote:

....and the Angel of the Lord opened the Seventh Seal.

Would you kids please put this dogsucker and all his inbred offspring
into killfile hell once and for all?

PLEASE?


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

From Hallerb:

At the speeds involved no one could of survived.

A thought just occurred to me...

Maybe an *airbag* could have saved them. (COTS Ford-style SRS
airbag.)

Not that I would necessarily advocate designing an aircraft (let alone
spacecraft) with this. There are smarter ways to make 51L/107-type
crashes survivable.


~ CT

Stuf4 wrote:

From Hallerb:

At the speeds involved no one could of survived.

A thought just occurred to me...

Maybe an *airbag* could have saved them. (COTS Ford-style SRS
airbag.)

Not that I would necessarily advocate designing an aircraft (let alone
spacecraft) with this. There are smarter ways to make 51L/107-type
crashes survivable.


Don't know about spacecraft but the small plane makers have been working on
how to use airbag technology to reduce injuries in otherwise survivable
crashes.

"Stuf4" wrote in message
om...
From Hallerb:

At the speeds involved no one could of survived.

The velocity at impact was only estimated and it was based on the crew
compartment having an intact nose which it did not have. Furthermore, no
effort by NASA was made to determine how the impact forces were distributed
through the crew compartment, at least not that was ever made public. While
it may not seem important it most certainly is for crashworthiness
assessment and future designs of the next generation space shuttle.

A thought just occurred to me...

Maybe an *airbag* could have saved them. (COTS Ford-style SRS
airbag.)

Not that I would necessarily advocate designing an aircraft (let alone
spacecraft) with this. There are smarter ways to make 51L/107-type
crashes survivable.

NASA prefers to ignore orbiter crashworthiness issues publicly (even their
astronauts amazingly) but you are correct IMO anyway, that a number of
modern safety systems may have saved some of the crew at impact, albeit with
severe injuries to near fatal injuries. Dale Earnhardt's crash is thought
by many to have been survivable with some crew equipment changes and better
seatbelts. The impact angle, actual velocity, and the way the impact energy
was dissipated by the crew compartment and the ocean would dictate the
likelihood of survival. Also which seat you sat in would determine your
chances. Landing in 87 feet of water makes it a nonsurvivable event in the
case of STS 51-L. Now after STS 51-L, the U.S. Navy Supervisor of Salvage
recommended that NASA install locator beacons on all high value parts of the
orbiter. There is no indication that NASA ever did so AFAIK, but time is
everything after an accident when it comes to crew recovery. I did not
follow the Columbia accident as well as I would have liked so I may have
missed any mention of locator beacons if they existed.

--

Daniel
http://www.challengerdisaster.info
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

Charleston wrote:

Now after STS 51-L, the U.S. Navy Supervisor of Salvage
recommended that NASA install locator beacons on all high value parts of the
orbiter. There is no indication that NASA ever did so AFAIK, but time is
everything after an accident when it comes to crew recovery.

According to my source, within 48 hours the remains of Onizuka,
Resnik, and Jarvis had been placed in aluminum containers at Patrick.

Within 48-72 hours, my source had transported the Brevard County Coroner
to Patrick, for the purpose of conducting the autopsies. When they
arrived, the coroner was not permitted to conduct the autopsies.

The only thing about which my source had the slightest doubt was the
name Jarvis; but even after I suggested the name McNair, he remained
virtually certain of the name Jarvis. I'll ask some medical experts at
Mayo Clinic about the elapsed time, the next time I'm up there.

Hallerb wrote:

According to my source, within 48 hours the remains of Onizuka,
Resnik, and Jarvis had been placed in aluminum containers at Patrick.


I thought the crew wasnt found for a month or so. Did the crew cabin fragrement
and only some bodies were recovered at different times?

It depends on who you ask, evidently. I think I still have some news
clippings stating that miltary pathologists were flown in to the Cape
area (possibly from the Atlanta area) before the official announcement
(weeks later) that the "crew cabin" had been located by divers. Perhaps
those pathologists were examining/identifying only hairs in helmets,
perhaps not. One diver described the cabin debris he found on the ocean
floor as "nothing you could identify." I quote him in my book.