New Meade Series 5000 Eyepieces - Taking a run at Televue

This could be interesting. Based only on this announcement ,
http://www.meade.com/authdealers/ser...000_lowRes.pdf
, it *looks* like Meade is taking a serious run at Televue in the
eyepiece game. I notice that Meade has gone back to the 5-element
design for the Plossls (which makes it no longer a Plossl, but that's
splitting hairs). This is a Masuyama design (i.e. Takahashi LE
series), and this design is very good, though Meade describes theirs
as having a 60º apparent field of view vs. the standard 52º.

The Super Wide Angle series looks like a direct competitor to the
Televue Panoptic line, and the Ultra Wide Angle series is a Nagler
competitor. I see that Meade has tossed away the silly (and
incorrect/false) marketing nonsense of one-upmanship in claiming
slightly higher specs than the comparable Televue products.

I also note the the current Meade 14mm UWA sells for about US$300 and
in the new series, the 14mm is US$100 cheaper. The old 14mm was/is an
outstanding EP, considered by most reviewers to be the best that Meade
produced and on par with the Televue Naglers. I had one and sold it. I
regretted that big-time and picked up another one off Astromart.

These EP's are scheduled for release over the next two months. I'm
betting that this is the reason that Televue is having a sale on it's
Nagler and Radian line (about 15% off) until the end of the year. I'm
betting that if the new Meade EP's live up to the claims Meade has
made in this early flyer, Televue will permanently lower the cost of
their premium Ep's. Look for a sale on the Panoptic line in the new
year. It will be interesting to read the first serious reviews of
these new eyepieces. It would be remarkable if Meade actually came up
with new eyepieces that could give Televue a run for their money. If
they did, it would result in more choice and lower prices for the
asto-consumer for premium-quality optics. Wait and see.

Cheers,

- Craig.

(P.S. - I own a couple of cases full of Televue products. I love 'em,
but I love competition more)

"Craig Levine" wrote in message
...
This could be interesting. Based only on this announcement ,
http://www.meade.com/authdealers/ser...000_lowRes.pdf
, it *looks* like Meade is taking a serious run at Televue in the
eyepiece game. I notice that Meade has gone back to the 5-element
design for the Plossls (which makes it no longer a Plossl, but that's
splitting hairs). This is a Masuyama design (i.e. Takahashi LE
series), and this design is very good, though Meade describes theirs
as having a 60º apparent field of view vs. the standard 52º.

Looks very promising. If the 60 deg claim is true, that would be a nice
advantage vs typical "plossls". Wonder what the eye relief will be.


I also note the the current Meade 14mm UWA sells for about US$300 and
in the new series, the 14mm is US$100 cheaper.

This is great news. I own 4.7mm & 8.8mm UWAs and really like them. Got
them on a Meade buy 1, get 1 free deal a few years back. I also own a
Televue standard plossl 7.4mm. After using the 8.8 for a while and then
switching to the 7.4, one really appreciates how much nicer the wider
field and longer eye relief are. I feel like I have to squint to see anything
through the 7.4. (I'm not saying this is a fair price comparison, just
commenting upon how the UWA is a joy to use.)

About time we've seen some pricing actions from lower cost Chinese
manufacturing in the brand name eyepieces. You know manufacturing
cost is much lower, and I doubt there is little, if any, original R&D costs
to recover on these pieces.

Alan

"Craig Levine" wrote in message
...

The Super Wide Angle series looks like a direct competitor to the
Televue Panoptic line, and the Ultra Wide Angle series is a Nagler
competitor.

I wonder how much of a market there will be for some of SWA series.

For example, the 16mm SWA has a 68 deg field for $179.
The 14mm UWA with an 82 deg field is $199.

The 14mm UWA would give you a bit more magnification along
with a wider FOV for $20 more.

I've been considering dropping $119 for a Speers 14mm. These
new Meades are going to make me stop and reconsider.

However the 24mm SWA is $249 vs $399 for the UWA 24mm.

I own a 24.5mm SWA Meade and it is probably my most used
eyepiece. Got it used in a package deal. I'd have a hard time
paying $250 for it, even though I do like it.

Alan

"Alan Dana" wrote in message ...
"Craig Levine" wrote in message
...

The Super Wide Angle series looks like a direct competitor to the
Televue Panoptic line, and the Ultra Wide Angle series is a Nagler
competitor.

I wonder how much of a market there will be for some of SWA series.

For example, the 16mm SWA has a 68 deg field for $179.
The 14mm UWA with an 82 deg field is $199.

The 14mm UWA would give you a bit more magnification along
with a wider FOV for $20 more.

I've been considering dropping $119 for a Speers 14mm. These
new Meades are going to make me stop and reconsider.

However the 24mm SWA is $249 vs $399 for the UWA 24mm.

I own a 24.5mm SWA Meade and it is probably my most used
eyepiece. Got it used in a package deal. I'd have a hard time
paying $250 for it, even though I do like it.

Alan

I'd have to see the EP's to judge, but my guess is that the UWA's
might be a bit wide and/or heavy for binoviewing. The SWA's *may* be
better suited for bino's. My plan is to pick up a 24mm Panoptic (ok,
I've got a 20mm Nag T2, a 22mm Pan and a 27mm Pan, but do you ever
really have enough EP's ;-) )? and a 24mm SWA and a 24mm UWA. From
there, I'll cull the herd of at least 3 eyepieces. I want a 24mm
widefield to fill a bit of a gap, so this will give me a chance to try
out some of the new ones.

Cheers,

- Craig

"Craig Levine" wrote in message
...
This could be interesting. Based only on this announcement ,
http://www.meade.com/authdealers/ser...000_lowRes.pdf

Any idea of what they mean by "long eye relief" ?

Thierry

, it *looks* like Meade is taking a serious run at Televue in the
eyepiece game. I notice that Meade has gone back to the 5-element
design for the Plossls (which makes it no longer a Plossl, but that's
splitting hairs). This is a Masuyama design (i.e. Takahashi LE
series), and this design is very good, though Meade describes theirs
as having a 60º apparent field of view vs. the standard 52º.

The Super Wide Angle series looks like a direct competitor to the
Televue Panoptic line, and the Ultra Wide Angle series is a Nagler
competitor. I see that Meade has tossed away the silly (and
incorrect/false) marketing nonsense of one-upmanship in claiming
slightly higher specs than the comparable Televue products.

I also note the the current Meade 14mm UWA sells for about US$300 and
in the new series, the 14mm is US$100 cheaper. The old 14mm was/is an
outstanding EP, considered by most reviewers to be the best that Meade
produced and on par with the Televue Naglers. I had one and sold it. I
regretted that big-time and picked up another one off Astromart.

These EP's are scheduled for release over the next two months. I'm
betting that this is the reason that Televue is having a sale on it's
Nagler and Radian line (about 15% off) until the end of the year. I'm
betting that if the new Meade EP's live up to the claims Meade has
made in this early flyer, Televue will permanently lower the cost of
their premium Ep's. Look for a sale on the Panoptic line in the new
year. It will be interesting to read the first serious reviews of
these new eyepieces. It would be remarkable if Meade actually came up
with new eyepieces that could give Televue a run for their money. If
they did, it would result in more choice and lower prices for the
asto-consumer for premium-quality optics. Wait and see.

Cheers,

- Craig.

(P.S. - I own a couple of cases full of Televue products. I love 'em,
but I love competition more)

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:24:28 +0200, "Thierry" - wrote:


"Craig Levine" wrote in message
.. .
This could be interesting. Based only on this announcement ,
http://www.meade.com/authdealers/ser...000_lowRes.pdf

Any idea of what they mean by "long eye relief" ?

Thierry

No; all we have to go on is the one-page flyer from Meade.

- Craig

Actually the small eyelens concerns me a bit. I am interested in the
18mm UW but that small eyelens means a tight eye relief and I may have
to reconsider. I'll researve further judgement until the official
specs come out.


Craig Levine wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:24:28 +0200, "Thierry" - wrote:


"Craig Levine" wrote in message
.. .
This could be interesting. Based only on this announcement ,
http://www.meade.com/authdealers/ser...000_lowRes.pdf

Any idea of what they mean by "long eye relief" ?

Thierry

No; all we have to go on is the one-page flyer from Meade.

- Craig

Hi,

I'd have to see the EP's to judge, but my guess is that the UWA's
might be a bit wide and/or heavy for binoviewing.

From closely calculated approximations off the Meade Hi-Res file the
18mm T5000 UWA appears ~71mm body dia. max. which is too large for
most of us. The 14mm eyepiece measures ~58mm body which would be
doable for many folks IPD if the optical design is a friendly enough
one.

The new 14mm has ~10% larger exit aperture dia. (20% area) over the
Nagler 13mm T6. The new 6.7mm shows to have ~22% larger exit aperture
dia. (44% area) over its T4000 predecessor. This can often be
considered a good sign toward an even friendlier design.

The new 14mm and 6.7mm UWAs personally interest me the most (followed
by the 26mm 60° Plossl). The image contrast they will exhibit is
likely to be outstanding and is probably the biggest boost in the UWA
model performance. They might match or exceed the T6 Naglers in this
regard.

All the new Meades look great. Having been made to wait nearly 20
years for this my eyeballs are nearly ready for a glass jar on a
shelf!

;-)

Clear skies,
Pete

). The image contrast they will exhibit is
likely to be outstanding and is probably the biggest boost in the UWA
model performance. They might match or exceed the T6 Naglers in this
regard.


Pete,

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Just curious. Wouldn't you
have to know what kind of glass and what kind of coatings are involved
to make a guess at contrast? If the Pentax XL's and XW's don't have
a contrast edge on the Type 6 series, (and they don't to my eyes),
I'm skeptical that these will. But time will tell.

Clyde

On 13 Oct 2004 05:32:25 -0700, (clyde crewey) wrote:

Hi Clyde,

). The image contrast they will exhibit is
likely to be outstanding and is probably the biggest boost in the UWA
model performance. They might match or exceed the T6 Naglers in this
regard.


Pete,

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Just curious. Wouldn't you
have to know what kind of glass and what kind of coatings are involved
to make a guess at contrast?

I would not have to know those to make the suggestion. It should
likely prove be the case based upon (in no particular order) the
advertiser statements, the minimalization of design and some
interesting historical facts. I can't give a rats behind over label
brand because that has proven more than once distractive and a
negative influence to matters at hand. Both are definitely innovative
producers which is undebatebly a positive benefit to the amateur
community. OTOH it is documented that both companies occasionally
have (and still do) range claims across the board. It is my opinion
the issue should focus soley upon qualities of the actual individual
product one wishes to choose for themselves. As long as it's the best
thing used in the field per application what else could matter being
that all cats are black at night?

If the Pentax XL's and XW's don't have
a contrast edge on the Type 6 series, (and they don't to my eyes),
I'm skeptical that these will. But time will tell.

Exactly, time will tell us. From the looks of things my openended
opinion is that the new Meade T5000 UWA will likely equal the Type 6
Nagler for contrast of image if the coatings and baffling are
significantly improved over the earlier T4000. Not a hard call,
really, considering what those 18 year "oldies" generally are like.

My personal interest also goes beyond that aspect. I wish to see the
new Meade 14mm found better corrected than the 13mm Nagler T6. The
13mm exhibits significant distortion when the eye(s) move off center
axis. This trait is most obvious at faster f-ratio and with some
complex systems. It has a lot to do with the compact nature of the
extreme fielded design. I think there is reasonable enough chance in
expectation to realize a little improvement there now. The heart
pumps in anticipation!

Historically, Meade significantly upgraded *optical* performance of
the T4000 UWA concept back in the late 80's over T1 (and also T2)
Naglers in short-to-moderate FL's applicable to their particular
design. It was also a case in point to some degree with their SWA and
SP lines against the TeleVue equivalents. I realize there are
opinions on either side with these coins but Meade held an advantage
in progression. And FWIW I have compared several of them head-to-head
and to my own satisfaction in conclusion.

Meade's T4000 UWA model was better corrected in field, chromatism and
with on-axis sharpness (sharpness that cannot be in confusion with
influences of image contrast, mind you, as the Meades were generally
very slightly inferior in this regard due slightly less effective
coatings and baffling). Additionally, their SWA eyepiece glass types
in stack were much whiter than the WF line (they did mention lastest
glasses being used) and FOV was very flat in comparison. There was
also achievement in better eye relief afforded the user. All things
done in progression.

This "on-the-heels" innovation is a compliment to all _telescope
eyepiece technology_ in general and shows clearly that two minds are
better than one. Overall this is nothing less than a winning
combination in marketing competition for all of us to benefit from.

Clear and friendly skies...

Pete