M41, a fuzzy blur!!!

through a celestron 114gt in reasonably dark surroundings M41 was just a
white misty fuzzy blur
is that right?, I am planning a CCD imaging setup for deep space, as per mt
other posting.
( thank you Pete and Robin for your detailed replies ), but with the eye is
this what I should expect?

Regards

Simon

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:39:07 GMT, "simon.coombs3"
wrote:

through a celestron 114gt in reasonably dark surroundings M41 was just a
white misty fuzzy blur
is that right?, I am planning a CCD imaging setup for deep space, as per mt
other posting.
( thank you Pete and Robin for your detailed replies ), but with the eye is
this what I should expect?

M41 is an open cluster in Canis Major from memory. I haven't looked
at it in a fair while but I seem to remember that there's not a lot to
it. It must be pretty low at this time of year as well. I wouldn't
have thought it would have looked like a white fuzzy blur though
unless your skies were very poor ad it was really hugging the horizon.

Forgive me for asking but did you mean M31 in Andromeda?


--
Pete
Homepage at http://www.pbl33.co.uk
Home of the Lunar Parallax Demonstration Project

Hi Pete,

yes I did mean M31, it looks the most detailed deep space object available.

Regards

Simon
"Pete Lawrence" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:39:07 GMT, "simon.coombs3"
wrote:

through a celestron 114gt in reasonably dark surroundings M41 was just a
white misty fuzzy blur
is that right?, I am planning a CCD imaging setup for deep space, as per
mt
other posting.
( thank you Pete and Robin for your detailed replies ), but with the eye
is
this what I should expect?

M41 is an open cluster in Canis Major from memory. I haven't looked
at it in a fair while but I seem to remember that there's not a lot to
it. It must be pretty low at this time of year as well. I wouldn't
have thought it would have looked like a white fuzzy blur though
unless your skies were very poor ad it was really hugging the horizon.

Forgive me for asking but did you mean M31 in Andromeda?


--
Pete
Homepage at http://www.pbl33.co.uk
Home of the Lunar Parallax Demonstration Project

Pete Lawrence wrote:
M41 is an open cluster in Canis Major from memory. I haven't looked at
it in a fair while but I seem to remember that there's not a lot to it.

In a small telescope or big bin, there's a couple of dozen or so stars
in an area about the size of the Moon.

It must be pretty low at this time of year as well.

Effectively impossible -- it's a daylight object.

I wouldn't have thought it would have looked like a white fuzzy blur
though unless your skies were very poor ad it was really hugging the
horizon.

Easily resolved into a few stars, even with a modest instrument
(actually very nice in big bins -- seems to have "depth").


Forgive me for asking but did you mean M31 in Andromeda?

That would explain it -- simple typo, perhaps?


Best,
Stephen

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simon.coombs3 wrote:
yes I did mean M31, it looks the most detailed deep space object
available.

Cut your teeth on open clusters. There are loads of them around, and
they are easy to enjoy! The Perseus Double Cluster and M34 are
reasonably well placed at the moment. Also of possible interest for your
scope at present is M27 (you should see some shape to it) and some of
the bigger globs (say M15 and M2). But, for a new telescope user, just
play around in the Cepheus/Cassiopeia/Perseus region and discover things
for yourself. The skill comes in identifying what you've found (and you
*will* find -- and there is a real thrill to "independent discovery",
even if it's something that thousands have seen before)!


Best,
Stephen

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Simon,

That sounds about right. M31 is a wide field object so depending on the size
of your CCD chip and the telescope used, all you may get is the central core
and the raw image will look like a fuzzy blob!

Now I read your post again, I see that you are looking at it visually, yes
most things are a fuzzzy blob, but of different shapes. When you turn the
CCD camera on it then it will look different.

There are some bright globual clusters around, I would practise on those
first as they are much easier and don't require long exposures.

Have fun,
Lilian

"simon.coombs3" wrote in message
...
through a celestron 114gt in reasonably dark surroundings M41 was just a
white misty fuzzy blur
is that right?, I am planning a CCD imaging setup for deep space, as per
mt
other posting.
( thank you Pete and Robin for your detailed replies ), but with the eye
is
this what I should expect?

Regards

Simon

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:39:07 GMT, "simon.coombs3"
wrote:

through a celestron 114gt in reasonably dark surroundings M41 was just a
white misty fuzzy blur
is that right?, I am planning a CCD imaging setup for deep space, as per mt
other posting.
( thank you Pete and Robin for your detailed replies ), but with the eye is
this what I should expect?

M31 is a multi-layered thing Simon. I've often given up on it for
looking nothing more than ka fuzzy blob with direct viewing. Even my
CCD or digital imaging results have been pretty miserable.

However there's a problem here. I wondered why my results were poor
compared with some of the other images I'd seen? To attempt to answer
this, a couple of Selsey astronomers (it's in the water!) and I
decided to have a little bit of a competition to see who can get the
best image of M31. Unfortunately, as it stands we've only had les
than a dozen goes at it due to the weather. Most of those were low
and light polluted. When the skies clear we will resume the project
though.

So far it's been fascinating. Imaging the object reveals a fuzzy area
that looks like a squashed spider's nest. Very brighy in the middle
but with little overall detail. Then the penny drops. M31 is so
large that the bit that I've been imaging is just the small central
core. It takes a while to get your bearings and start to get familiar
with the star patterns. Scale is also very important.

The definitive image of M31 is that taken by Rob Gendler. Boy is it a
beauty - you can spend hours wandering around the image alone. His
home page is he

http://www.robgendlerastropics.com/

Wander in an take a look at his high resolution mosaic - awsome!

Now get a grip on where you are. Using the core of M31 (in Gendler's
image) as the centre of a clock face, move out in the 9 o'clock
direction. See the brightest, almost circular blob in that direction
- that's M32. M32 is about half a degree, or a Moon's diameter, from
the centre of M31! How big is the FOV on your scope? Probably very
small compared to the bigger picture right?

You can see M32 and the M31 core in my mate Ian Sharp's best effort to
date - remember, he's imaging with a wide field scope!

http://www.astro-sharp.com/

I've still got a long way to go as I'm trying to build a mosaic of the
object from the centre out. It's a fascinating journey and revealing
hidden depths of M31 that I was unaware of. My paultry effort is
here.

http://www.digital-astronomy.co.uk/temp/M31-start.jpg

A few more clear nights needed in my case I think!


--
Pete
Homepage at http://www.pbl33.co.uk
Home of the Lunar Parallax Demonstration Project