New idea for solar filter?

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things near the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and time. Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you will know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of this glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:33:51 -0400, "Andrew Goldish"
wrote:

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things near the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard...

You would need an optically flat filter that was capable of a range of 0A to 5A+
under electronic control. I'm not aware of any material close to that. You
couldn't use material like the sunglasses use (even if it got dark enough, which
it doesn't) because you need a full aperture filter, and that filter sees about
the same amount of sunlight whether it is aimed towards the Sun or not.
You could do it mechanically, with full aperture filters that are deployed
automatically by motors, of course.

I doubt any manufacturer would provide a system like this because of liability
concerns. Rather than using position feedback, it would be much safer to do it
optically- have a cheap piggyback scope attached to the main OTA with a sensor
(and a very wide field) and let it decide when the scope was pointed near the
Sun.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to experiment, at
about $59 per mask.

Al


"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message
...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things near
the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the
mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and time.
Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you will
know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of this
glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

But Chris brought up the liability issue for commercial vendors, and I think
it goes beyond that and that it's too dangerous to rely on something
automatic on something as dangerous as viewing close to the Sun. Are you
prepared to risk going blind just for a little convenience.

Also, it's not clear to me what the original poster wanted to do. Is it to
view something close to the Sun? Then there are many safe ways to do it,
one being to hid the Sun behind a building or other fixed object so that
there is no danger of it being seen through the scope when you're scouring
around it for an object. I once saw Venus close to the Sun using this
method, and it's very safe as long as you're careful that the Sun never
peeks out from behind the building as it travels across the sky.

I know a lot of guys like being clever, but is also being too clever for
your own good, or the safety of your eyes.
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Al" wrote in message
t...
You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to experiment,
at
about $59 per mask.

Al


"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message
...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things near
the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about
this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the
mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and time.
Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you will
know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of this
glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had
this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
But Chris brought up the liability issue for commercial vendors, and I
think
it goes beyond that and that it's too dangerous to rely on something
automatic on something as dangerous as viewing close to the Sun. Are you
prepared to risk going blind just for a little convenience.

I didn't read Chris's post, I responded only to the original poster (ACG).
I agree that an auto darkening mask is a poor idea for solar use, but I
didn't present it as a good idea, only as an alternative and food for
thought.

Al



Also, it's not clear to me what the original poster wanted to do. Is it
to
view something close to the Sun? Then there are many safe ways to do it,
one being to hid the Sun behind a building or other fixed object so that
there is no danger of it being seen through the scope when you're scouring
around it for an object. I once saw Venus close to the Sun using this
method, and it's very safe as long as you're careful that the Sun never
peeks out from behind the building as it travels across the sky.

I know a lot of guys like being clever, but is also being too clever for
your own good, or the safety of your eyes.
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Al" wrote in message
t...
You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over
the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to
experiment,
at
about $59 per mask.

Al


"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message
...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for
a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things
near
the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about
this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the
mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and time.
Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you will
know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope
realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from
the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check
out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of this
glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is
much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had
this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

Al wrote:

You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to experiment, at
about $59 per mask.

Al

I thought of that too, but the welders glass is not optical quality.


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"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message ...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following for a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things near the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that the mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and time. Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you will know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of this glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

It will not work for near sun observations Andrew.
Go to basics:
If it was not for atmosphereic scattering a simple black disk would do
the job, (there are some corona observations that are carried out in
this manner).
It is scatter that obscures the sky in day light, and no device
internal to your telescope can deal with light that is on the same
path as the image you are seeking.
As to safety, it seems a long way to go for a 'don't point your scope
at the sun, (DUH!) prohibition.
Pragmatist.

I've used the building shadow trick whenever possible, but in general if
you're in a field somewhere observing without any large structures around
(maybe at a star party during the day) you may not have enough fixed
structures around to pull it off. But seeing things near the Sun is what
I'm trying to do (sungrazing comets maybe, though those are probably too
close to the Sun to pull it off).

I wonder how people deal with the bright sky near the Sun (though outside
the zone "too close" to the Sun which is off limits).

ACG

"Al" wrote in message
t...

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
But Chris brought up the liability issue for commercial vendors, and I
think
it goes beyond that and that it's too dangerous to rely on something
automatic on something as dangerous as viewing close to the Sun. Are
you
prepared to risk going blind just for a little convenience.

I didn't read Chris's post, I responded only to the original poster (ACG).
I agree that an auto darkening mask is a poor idea for solar use, but I
didn't present it as a good idea, only as an alternative and food for
thought.

Al



Also, it's not clear to me what the original poster wanted to do. Is it
to
view something close to the Sun? Then there are many safe ways to do
it,
one being to hid the Sun behind a building or other fixed object so that
there is no danger of it being seen through the scope when you're
scouring
around it for an object. I once saw Venus close to the Sun using this
method, and it's very safe as long as you're careful that the Sun never
peeks out from behind the building as it travels across the sky.

I know a lot of guys like being clever, but is also being too clever for
your own good, or the safety of your eyes.
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Al" wrote in message
t...
You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over
the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to
experiment,
at
about $59 per mask.

Al


"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message
...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following
for
a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things
near
the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about
this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from
a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that
the
mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and
time.
Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you
will
know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope
realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from
the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check
out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your
face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of
this
glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is
much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had
this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG

I've used the building shadow trick whenever possible, but in general if
you're in a field somewhere observing without any large structures around
(maybe at a star party during the day) you may not have enough fixed
structures around to pull it off. But seeing things near the Sun is what
I'm trying to do (sungrazing comets maybe, though those are probably too
close to the Sun to pull it off).

I wonder how people deal with the bright sky near the Sun (though outside
the zone "too close" to the Sun which is off limits).

ACG

"Al" wrote in message
t...

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
But Chris brought up the liability issue for commercial vendors, and I
think
it goes beyond that and that it's too dangerous to rely on something
automatic on something as dangerous as viewing close to the Sun. Are
you
prepared to risk going blind just for a little convenience.

I didn't read Chris's post, I responded only to the original poster (ACG).
I agree that an auto darkening mask is a poor idea for solar use, but I
didn't present it as a good idea, only as an alternative and food for
thought.

Al



Also, it's not clear to me what the original poster wanted to do. Is it
to
view something close to the Sun? Then there are many safe ways to do
it,
one being to hid the Sun behind a building or other fixed object so that
there is no danger of it being seen through the scope when you're
scouring
around it for an object. I once saw Venus close to the Sun using this
method, and it's very safe as long as you're careful that the Sun never
peeks out from behind the building as it travels across the sky.

I know a lot of guys like being clever, but is also being too clever for
your own good, or the safety of your eyes.
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Al" wrote in message
t...
You could buy a auto darkening welders mask, which are being sold over
the
counter for the past 5 years. The price is now low enough to
experiment,
at
about $59 per mask.

Al


"Andrew Goldish" wrote in message
...
Hi. I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the following
for
a
solar filter. This type of filter may actually help you see things
near
the
Sun more easily.

There have been advertisements for sunglasses and stuff which
automatically get darker the brighter the sky gets. So, what about
this?
You'd need to be using a computer-enhanced telescope operating from
a
position of known latitude and longitude. It is also crucial that
the
mount
be secure -- any jostling would be a safety hazard.

The telescope has a computer, and the computer has a date and
time.
Given
this information (and the fact that you know your longitude), you
will
know
at what altitude and azimuth the Sun is at. When the telescope
realizes
that it is fewer than say, 5 sun diameters away from the Sun, it
automatically cuts in the solar filter. Once you move it away from
the
sun, the filter is removed.

This may allow you to do daylight observing (a good way to check
out
Mercury?) without having to worry about getting the Sun in your
face.

Note, by the way, that if you make a finderscope cover out of
this
glass,
trying to rotate your telescope so that it's pointing at the Sun is
much
easier because you can look through the finderscope (I've always had
this
problem with solar observing).

Could this actually work?

ACG