Observing report 15-05-2004 - a satisfying night.

Equipment: Orion Optics Europa 250 Newt ('Mini-Hubble') (250mm, f4.8) on
HEQ5 mount, 10x50 bins.
Conditions: Initially clear, steady. Wind from the west, slow. Very
little ground breeze. Moderate l/p present, as always. No moon.
Location: Stafford, England.
Objects: Jupiter, comet NEAT C2001/Q4, M13, M57, M27, portion of the
Veil (maybe).

Got set up outside at roughly 8.30pm to allow a full cool down. I had
high hopes for this night, as it was predicted to be clear tomorrow
which meant (so I hoped) that it would be clear tonight.

Started off properly about an hour later with Jupiter. GRS was plainly
visible at 300x, with lots of detail present in both SEB and NEB, along
with many other belts. I've taken to getting 300x by using a 20mm e/p in
combination with my 5x Powermate - this seems to give a more pleasing
view than just using a 4mm e/p. Up until tonight I've never been
_entirely_ sure that I've seen the GRS, but tonight it was a definite.
Bagged the sucker. Some occasional blurring of Jupiter indicated that
either Mini-Hubble hadn't cooled down fully or the seeing wasn't quite
as good as I'd first thought. Most of the stuff I was after tonight
wouldn't involve high mag, so I wasn't too bothered.

Next on the agenda was comet NEAT C2001/Q4. I found this very easily
indeed with the bins, literally taking me about 10 seconds. Not much of
a tail to this one but noticeably extended in one direction. There was a
very nice cluster in the same field of view tonight. Well worth a view
if you haven't already. The chart I used was obtained from
http://www.heavens-above.com

By now it was 11.00ish and the sky was getting properly dark. Decided to
say 'hello' to M13.

Located it easily in the 10x50 finderscope and slotted in my 32mm e/p
for 37.5x. Saw a bright, fuzzy ball of light but no clearly defined
stars. Went up to 60x (20mm e/p) and started to get stars resolved, with
some brighter ones in towards the core. M13 is always a pleasing object
and one that I find strangely restful to observe, even when (like
tonight) I was jumping around at random. Also had a quick stab at
finding planetary nebula NGC 6210 but I hadn't properly familiarised
myself with its location, so this one was a failure. I'll come back to
this one on a later session methinks.

Lyra was by now clearing the rooftops so I decided to go for an old
friend - M57, the Ring Nebula. My reasons for this were twofold: One, I
hadn't had a good look at it in quite some time and two, I wanted to try
out my new Astronomik UHC filter (from Green Witch). Again, finding it
was easy (although I needed the 20mm at 60x to be sure). Once centered I
had a good, long look at it unaided. M57 is both a favourite of mine and
an object I find oddly disappointing. I think I'm always expecting to
get a razor sharp image and, of course, I don't because it's not a
sharply defined object. I always get the feeling that it's a bit more
blurred than it should be, although it should be noted that I had *not*
collimated this evening so perhaps it was. On the other hand, stars were
sharp so perhaps not. Once I'd familiarised myself with M57, I screwed
in the filter to see what difference it would make.

Wow.

The background sky became noticeably darker. Stars lost roughly 0.5
magnitude of brightness, but the nebula itself was undimmed. It really
jumped out at me. If I'd had any doubts as to the effectiveness of UHC
filters, this removed them. 90 quid well spent.

Then the clouds rolled in. This was a bit of a blow because I'd been
hoping to have a crack at the Veil nebula. I went in, leaving everything
set up outside and waited for 30mins.

It was clear again! Woohoo!

Cygnus had cleared the rooftops but only just. I knew that to find the
Veil, I had to locate 52 Cyg and with that centered with a low power
e/p, the Veil should be in the same field of view. 52 Cyg was duly
centered and my 32mm e/p, armed with the UHC filter, was in place.

No Veil.

Panned around the general area to no avail (pun intended). Decided to
give up on the Veil for the time being and try to relocate M27. It's in
Vulpecula but I always associate it with Cygnus because I use Beta Cyg,
Gamma Cyg and Epsilon Cyg to find it. M27 is the fourth corner of a
rectangle formed by these, or close enough anyway. Found it at 37.5x and
compared the views with and without the UHC filter. With the filter the
nebula was prominent against a black sky and showed some detail. The
term 'apple core' describes it quite nicely in terms of overall shape.
Without the filter it was still present but appeared more as a
thumbprint of fuzziness. It's much larger than M57 and should be an easy
object for almost any sized 'scope.

It was getting late now (about 1.15am) and I decided to have one last
stab at the Veil before calling it an evening. 52 Cyg was once again
centered. At this point I remembered the main thing you need as an
astronomer - patience. The Veil is a large, quite dim object so under
these skies I wasn't going to see it easily, even with a 10" 'scope and
a UHC filter. I shifted 52 Cyg off to the left of my field of view and
let my eyes relax. Patience, Jim, patience. Began to get the impression
that there was a faint, wavy line of dim light running roughly
vertically to the right of 52 Cyg. The more I looked, the more convinced
I became. Decided to shift the view dramatically and see if the line
remained - I did and it didn't. Moved back to 52 Cyg and there it was! I
then removed the filter and looked again - no line and much brighter sky
background. Replaced the filter and the line was back.

So, I -think- I can claim to having seen a portion of the Veil. Decided
that that was enough as it was 1.45am by now and I was getting very
tired. Broke kit down and called it a night.

Some nights are better than others. This was one of them.

Jim
--
AIM/iSight:JCAndrew2 - Log in and say 'hi'
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Great report Jim, nicely detailed, and dead chuffed you got NEAT, my old fave M57, my never yet seen
M27, and the Veil, sounds like the filter was well worth the money.

I *saw* NEAT thru my 10x50 on Fri night, but then took a tumble up the stairs on Sat PM (Im disabled
and tripped over one of my walking sticks), and bust a couple of ribs, so no more observing for me
for a while a t leats. What's the betting NEAT has buggered off by the time Im back on my (slightly
dodgy at the best of times) feet !

Telescope anyone ?

Im *this* close to packing the whole thing in :-(

Sláinte,

DH
Telford
Depressed....

David Harris wrote:

I *saw* NEAT thru my 10x50 on Fri night, but then took a tumble up the
stairs on Sat PM (Im disabled and tripped over one of my walking sticks),
and bust a couple of ribs, so no more observing for me for a while a t
leats. What's the betting NEAT has buggered off by the time Im back on my
(slightly dodgy at the best of times) feet !

I actually have no idea about how fast it's moving through the sky, so I
can't comment, sorry. Sorry to hear about the ribs though - broken or
'just' bruised?

Telescope anyone ?

No! Never give up!

Im *this* close to packing the whole thing in :-(

No! No! No! Bad! No biscuit!

Seriously, hope you get well soon mate.

Jim
--
AIM/iSight:JCAndrew2 - Log in and say 'hi'
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

David Harris wrote
Im *this* close to packing the whole thing in :-(

You should be ashamed, a couple of busted ribs is nothing.
I'd come over and knock some sense into you if my busted knee didn't
make me walk in circles all the time, and the dog stopped running of
with my stick.

I hope you make a quick recovery
;-)
Denis
--
DT
Replace nospam with the antithesis of hills

Hi Jim
Nice report. I am now jealous as a newbie. Do you guys go to any meetings I
could come along to and see your scope compared to mine. I would also like
some tips.I am in Staffordshire so I am happy to travel through staffs into
shrops and surrounding. I just want to get started and maybe look into
photography too.
Kind Regards
Tony
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Equipment: Orion Optics Europa 250 Newt ('Mini-Hubble') (250mm, f4.8) on
HEQ5 mount, 10x50 bins.
Conditions: Initially clear, steady. Wind from the west, slow. Very
little ground breeze. Moderate l/p present, as always. No moon.
Location: Stafford, England.
Objects: Jupiter, comet NEAT C2001/Q4, M13, M57, M27, portion of the
Veil (maybe).

Got set up outside at roughly 8.30pm to allow a full cool down. I had
high hopes for this night, as it was predicted to be clear tomorrow
which meant (so I hoped) that it would be clear tonight.

Started off properly about an hour later with Jupiter. GRS was plainly
visible at 300x, with lots of detail present in both SEB and NEB, along
with many other belts. I've taken to getting 300x by using a 20mm e/p in
combination with my 5x Powermate - this seems to give a more pleasing
view than just using a 4mm e/p. Up until tonight I've never been
_entirely_ sure that I've seen the GRS, but tonight it was a definite.
Bagged the sucker. Some occasional blurring of Jupiter indicated that
either Mini-Hubble hadn't cooled down fully or the seeing wasn't quite
as good as I'd first thought. Most of the stuff I was after tonight
wouldn't involve high mag, so I wasn't too bothered.

Next on the agenda was comet NEAT C2001/Q4. I found this very easily
indeed with the bins, literally taking me about 10 seconds. Not much of
a tail to this one but noticeably extended in one direction. There was a
very nice cluster in the same field of view tonight. Well worth a view
if you haven't already. The chart I used was obtained from
http://www.heavens-above.com

By now it was 11.00ish and the sky was getting properly dark. Decided to
say 'hello' to M13.

Located it easily in the 10x50 finderscope and slotted in my 32mm e/p
for 37.5x. Saw a bright, fuzzy ball of light but no clearly defined
stars. Went up to 60x (20mm e/p) and started to get stars resolved, with
some brighter ones in towards the core. M13 is always a pleasing object
and one that I find strangely restful to observe, even when (like
tonight) I was jumping around at random. Also had a quick stab at
finding planetary nebula NGC 6210 but I hadn't properly familiarised
myself with its location, so this one was a failure. I'll come back to
this one on a later session methinks.

Lyra was by now clearing the rooftops so I decided to go for an old
friend - M57, the Ring Nebula. My reasons for this were twofold: One, I
hadn't had a good look at it in quite some time and two, I wanted to try
out my new Astronomik UHC filter (from Green Witch). Again, finding it
was easy (although I needed the 20mm at 60x to be sure). Once centered I
had a good, long look at it unaided. M57 is both a favourite of mine and
an object I find oddly disappointing. I think I'm always expecting to
get a razor sharp image and, of course, I don't because it's not a
sharply defined object. I always get the feeling that it's a bit more
blurred than it should be, although it should be noted that I had *not*
collimated this evening so perhaps it was. On the other hand, stars were
sharp so perhaps not. Once I'd familiarised myself with M57, I screwed
in the filter to see what difference it would make.

Wow.

The background sky became noticeably darker. Stars lost roughly 0.5
magnitude of brightness, but the nebula itself was undimmed. It really
jumped out at me. If I'd had any doubts as to the effectiveness of UHC
filters, this removed them. 90 quid well spent.

Then the clouds rolled in. This was a bit of a blow because I'd been
hoping to have a crack at the Veil nebula. I went in, leaving everything
set up outside and waited for 30mins.

It was clear again! Woohoo!

Cygnus had cleared the rooftops but only just. I knew that to find the
Veil, I had to locate 52 Cyg and with that centered with a low power
e/p, the Veil should be in the same field of view. 52 Cyg was duly
centered and my 32mm e/p, armed with the UHC filter, was in place.

No Veil.

Panned around the general area to no avail (pun intended). Decided to
give up on the Veil for the time being and try to relocate M27. It's in
Vulpecula but I always associate it with Cygnus because I use Beta Cyg,
Gamma Cyg and Epsilon Cyg to find it. M27 is the fourth corner of a
rectangle formed by these, or close enough anyway. Found it at 37.5x and
compared the views with and without the UHC filter. With the filter the
nebula was prominent against a black sky and showed some detail. The
term 'apple core' describes it quite nicely in terms of overall shape.
Without the filter it was still present but appeared more as a
thumbprint of fuzziness. It's much larger than M57 and should be an easy
object for almost any sized 'scope.

It was getting late now (about 1.15am) and I decided to have one last
stab at the Veil before calling it an evening. 52 Cyg was once again
centered. At this point I remembered the main thing you need as an
astronomer - patience. The Veil is a large, quite dim object so under
these skies I wasn't going to see it easily, even with a 10" 'scope and
a UHC filter. I shifted 52 Cyg off to the left of my field of view and
let my eyes relax. Patience, Jim, patience. Began to get the impression
that there was a faint, wavy line of dim light running roughly
vertically to the right of 52 Cyg. The more I looked, the more convinced
I became. Decided to shift the view dramatically and see if the line
remained - I did and it didn't. Moved back to 52 Cyg and there it was! I
then removed the filter and looked again - no line and much brighter sky
background. Replaced the filter and the line was back.

So, I -think- I can claim to having seen a portion of the Veil. Decided
that that was enough as it was 1.45am by now and I was getting very
tired. Broke kit down and called it a night.

Some nights are better than others. This was one of them.

Jim
--
AIM/iSight:JCAndrew2 - Log in and say 'hi'
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Tony wrote:

Nice report. I am now jealous as a newbie. Do you guys go to any meetings I
could come along to and see your scope compared to mine. I would also like
some tips.I am in Staffordshire so I am happy to travel through staffs into
shrops and surrounding. I just want to get started and maybe look into
photography too.

I don't go to any myself, but as I recall the Stoke On Trent
Astronomical Society is still going - they're the guys that built the
Newchapel observatories. I was a member many, many years ago - good club
as I recall. There is also a Stafford society but I'm not sure of any
details.

What 'scope do you have?

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Jim wrote:

So, I -think- I can claim to having seen a portion of the Veil.

Having now done a bit of research on the web, I can confirm that what I
was looking at was the northern section of the western loop.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Jim wrote:
David Harris wrote:
I *saw* NEAT thru my 10x50 on Fri night, but then took a tumble up the
stairs on Sat PM (Im disabled and tripped over one of my walking sticks),
and bust a couple of ribs, so no more observing for me for a while a t
least. What's the betting NEAT has buggered off by the time Im back on my
(slightly dodgy at the best of times) feet !
I actually have no idea about how fast it's moving through the sky, so I
can't comment, sorry. Sorry to hear about the ribs though - broken or
'just' bruised?
Telescope anyone ?
No! Never give up!
Im *this* close to packing the whole thing in :-(
No! No! No! Bad! No biscuit!
Seriously, hope you get well soon mate.
Jim

Thanks for the thoughts Jim (and others in NG and in priv emails), but :

1) yes they are bust, X Rays have confirmed 2x breaks in 2 separate ribs, RHS just under my right
nip .... not a mark on the outside, but v painful to breath and move, so Im pretty sedentary right
now.

2) I also have a long term disability, Fibromyalgia. I sold my 8" cuz I couldnt handle it, now even
my tiddler of a 102mm is getting difficult to manage. There is a family issue too, which I will not
discuss here ... and, no, before you ask, its not Bev putting her foot down ! :-)

3) I really want to concentrate on photgraphy and want a Canon 300d or Nikon D70, and as I'm just
about to drop to a three day week (and therefore 3/5th salary), the only way to go is to have a mass
clearout to fund the camera.

Bummer ? yes..... alternatives ? ... few... Anyone got any other ideas apart from selling my body
for medical research ?

Seriously, this has just been the straw that almost broke my back (and did break my ribs), so if
anyone wants a real cool 102mm F5 scope on an EQ3-2 with dual drives and a nice 2" EP system, let me
know...

I will still be able to sit in my deck chair with my 10x50s, so its not the very end of the road...

Thanks again all,

DH
Telford

I have a nexstar 114 I also have the case with eyepieces and filters. I have
my digital camera,my laptop even a pda. All I need now is a tutor, brain and
some flair.
Kind Regards
Tony
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:

Nice report. I am now jealous as a newbie. Do you guys go to any
meetings I
could come along to and see your scope compared to mine. I would also
like
some tips.I am in Staffordshire so I am happy to travel through staffs
into
shrops and surrounding. I just want to get started and maybe look into
photography too.

I don't go to any myself, but as I recall the Stoke On Trent
Astronomical Society is still going - they're the guys that built the
Newchapel observatories. I was a member many, many years ago - good club
as I recall. There is also a Stafford society but I'm not sure of any
details.

What 'scope do you have?

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Having now done a bit of research on the
web, I can confirm that what I was
looking at was the northern section of
the western loop.

Jim

Sounds to me like you've nailed it, Jim. Actually, for me, while it
appears on charts that the western half of the loop should be easier to
find due to the star 52 Cygni, I find the eastern half, NGC 6992 easier
to see once I've found it. It's actually brighter, and it's not in
"competition" with the brightness of the star. The eastern half seems
to be curved just a little too tight to fit the rest of the loop,
visually, so that can throw a guy off a little, I don't have a filter,
so I've gotta wear red goggles to get really well dark adapted.
Marty