Beginner: Which to Buy? ETX-70 or 6" Newtonian Refractor?

Hey Folks...

First let me start that I'm a beginner... so go easy on me. I would
like to start into astronomy for the kids (well, and myself). I've
picked up a couple of magazines and have started to look at what is
out there.

I think I'm down to two options...

#1 ETX-70AT ~$200 USD (eBay or J&R)
http://www.meade.com/catalog/etx/etx70.html

#2 Orbitor OR9000 6" motorised refractor. ~$200 CDN (local discount
warehouse)
http://www.citiwellint.com/manuals/O...RevSep1603.pdf

Here are my goals and guidlines...

A/. Something easy to use. I want something easy to use, so I like
the idea of the ETX70, calibrate and then enter the "GOTO" number and
boom you are in business. That kind of ease really apeals to me. Now
I should mention that I do have a nice PalmOS based skymap program
called "Planetarium" that has a library of all sorts of objects and
there position... if you know the position of an object is it just a
simple matter of moving your scope to that position? or is there more
involved... I don't want to be wasting all my time trying to find
things.

B/. Power. I'm not so interested in planetary viewing... I like the
idea of being able to "deep sky" objects like nebulae, stars,
galaxies, etc... but that being said... I would occasionly look at
planets... the upcomming commets and satellites

C/. Flexibility. I would eventually like to get a "Scopetronix"
adaptor for my Sony CD400 Mavica camera... and try some photography.
Now the Sony will only allow for a 8 sec exposure maximum (at f2.1-f8)
so It may be fruitless... although I took some great exposure shots
of the North Lights last year after the big solar flares. My concern
is the weight of the camera and the motor on the scope. Is the ETX70
motor strong enough to move with a digital camera attached? The 6"
Newtonian I'm thinking about has all sorts of counter balances... but
I don't know how strong its motor is...

So what are your thoughts everyone? I've heard tell of "apperature
fever"... so am I better off with the Orbitor 6" Newtonian? or Will I
be spending all me time trying to find things, so am I better off with
an ETX70?

So what are your thoughts everyone? I've heard tell of "apperature
fever"... so am I better off with the Orbitor 6" Newtonian? or Will I
be spending all me time trying to find things, so am I better off with
an ETX70?

My suggestion:

Hook up with your local astronomy club before buying a scope. That way you
will have an idea of what to expect before you spend you hard earned money.

As far as the two scopes go....

1, ETX-70 I don't recommend this scope, I had an earlier version and optically
it was not that good.

But mostly the problem here is limited aperture. The GOTO feature is nice but
with only 70mm of objective, those Deep sky objects will mostly be rather faint
or no existent in the eyepiece. If your skies are quite dark then things may
be somewhat better but the number one rule in this game is that aperture rules,
the bigger the objective, the more you will see.

Regarding that Orbitor 6 inch Newtonian. Without seeing one in person, it is
hard to make a judgement. A 6 inch Newtonian, if it is a good scope, could be
quite nice. While it would not point at the objects for you, at least it you
could see it if you did find it.

But for $200 Can it is quite possible that this is a scope that is not worth
owning. There are some decent Chinese scopes available these days at quite
reasonably but there are also some very poor ones such as those commonly sold
on EBay.

(I was unable to download that PDF file so I couldn't look at it.)

So, without know that the 6 inch Newt is decent, the best thing you can do is
find your local club, hook up with them and get some experience under your
belt. And someone there will be able to help you with deciding on a scope to
buy.

Jon

"David Jones" wrote in message
om...
Hey Folks...

First let me start that I'm a beginner... so go easy on me. I would
like to start into astronomy for the kids (well, and myself). I've
picked up a couple of magazines and have started to look at what is
out there.

I think I'm down to two options...

#1 ETX-70AT ~$200 USD (eBay or J&R)
http://www.meade.com/catalog/etx/etx70.html

#2 Orbitor OR9000 6" motorised refractor. ~$200 CDN (local discount
warehouse)
http://www.citiwellint.com/manuals/O...RevSep1603.pdf

Here are my goals and guidlines...

A/. Something easy to use. I want something easy to use, so I like
the idea of the ETX70, calibrate and then enter the "GOTO" number and
boom you are in business. That kind of ease really apeals to me. Now
I should mention that I do have a nice PalmOS based skymap program
called "Planetarium" that has a library of all sorts of objects and
there position... if you know the position of an object is it just a
simple matter of moving your scope to that position? or is there more
involved... I don't want to be wasting all my time trying to find
things.

B/. Power. I'm not so interested in planetary viewing... I like the
idea of being able to "deep sky" objects like nebulae, stars,
galaxies, etc... but that being said... I would occasionly look at
planets... the upcomming commets and satellites

C/. Flexibility. I would eventually like to get a "Scopetronix"
adaptor for my Sony CD400 Mavica camera... and try some photography.
Now the Sony will only allow for a 8 sec exposure maximum (at f2.1-f8)
so It may be fruitless... although I took some great exposure shots
of the North Lights last year after the big solar flares. My concern
is the weight of the camera and the motor on the scope. Is the ETX70
motor strong enough to move with a digital camera attached? The 6"
Newtonian I'm thinking about has all sorts of counter balances... but
I don't know how strong its motor is...

So what are your thoughts everyone? I've heard tell of "apperature
fever"... so am I better off with the Orbitor 6" Newtonian? or Will I
be spending all me time trying to find things, so am I better off with
an ETX70?
Realistically, neither scope meets your needs. The mount on the ETX70, is
_light_, and is not really capable of photography. You are right in your
suspicions about the strength of the ETX70 in this regard. Though a lot can
be seen with small scopes, 'aperture is king' with regards to what can be
seen, especially for 'deep sky' objects. The 6" will see a lot more. However
there is a second 'adage', that says 'better a small scope that is used,
than a larger one that stays indoors'. However neither scope is really that
large.
Consider some careful second hand searching instead at present.
Unfortunately at this price bracket, you will be fighting a war to find
something that is reasonably useable. Look at the telescope buyers FAQ,
which explains a lot of the problems that exist. The Newtonian, buys you a
lot more scope for your dollar. The motors on this don't have to really
provide much drive (provided the balances are correctly set), but most EQ
mounted scopes in this sort of price range, have tripods that are
inadequate, relatively poor optics, and barely adequate drives.

Best Wishes

I don't want to be wasting all my time trying to find
things.

Why do you want a telescope? If you only want to see stuff, then you can
see a lot more on the web or in a book. Another option is to check out your
local astro club(s), and attend their public events. You will, in all
probability, get some great views through other people's scopes. In any
case, I think you should wade into this slowly, and figure out what type of
scope you want/need, and how big, by looking through a bunch of them.

Dennis (who loves wasting his time trying to find things - except my keys)

So what are your thoughts everyone? I've heard tell of "apperature
fever"... so am I better off with the Orbitor 6" Newtonian? or Will I
be spending all me time trying to find things, so am I better off with
an ETX70?

I looked over the manual for the Orbitor 9000. I can't say anything about the
optics. What I can say is that the mount is very much undersized for a 6 inch
Scope. It appears to be either an EQ-1 or an EQ-2 mount, either of which is
too small. A scope on an undersized will be shaky and vibration prone, not
fun.

In my view, I would not recommend either of these scopes, the small scope point
at lots of target but you will see very few of them. The bigger scope likely
has poor optics but in any case is undermounted.

If you are unable to hook up with a club, I suggest looking at a 6 inch F8
Dobsonian. Simple, easy to use, decent optics.

Yes, you will have to aim it yourself, but when do it right, there will be
something there to see.

jon

Lots of luck finding a Newtonian Refractor. I have seen a lot of refractors,
none of which were Newtonian, and lots of Newtonians, none of which were
refractors. By definition, a Newtonian is a reflector.
Clear, Dark, Steady Skies!
(And considerate neighbors!!!)

You can get a 6" Dob from Orion for $359.00. Add the intelliscope computer for
$149.00. You will have an easy to use quality scope that you can move easily.

Do not buy either of the scopes you describe.

I have an ETX-70; I like it. It's GOTO is quite accurate and the scope is
portable. But -- it's a tiny scope with small aperture. The small aperture
captures little light and is capable of magnification only up to approx
130X -- not much. I use the ETX-70 for a quick look out the back door and
that's about all.

Stay away from the other scope because you don't know anything about it.

Find a local astronomy club and spend the next few months at the club
looking through the scopes that members will bring to meetings. Talk to
them and get their opinions. Buy yourself a decent pair of binos -- 7X50 up
to 10X50 Nikons are available at many camera shops for around $100.00; get
some astronomy books and learn the sky.

If you MUST have a scope, if you have $200.00 burning a hole in your pocket,
get the Orion 4.5-inch dobsonian reflector. Good optics, comes with two
eyepieces, reputable company -- and you can always sell it for just about
what you paid for it.

--

-----
Joe S.




"David Jones" wrote in message
om...
Hey Folks...

First let me start that I'm a beginner... so go easy on me. I would
like to start into astronomy for the kids (well, and myself). I've
picked up a couple of magazines and have started to look at what is
out there.

I think I'm down to two options...

#1 ETX-70AT ~$200 USD (eBay or J&R)
http://www.meade.com/catalog/etx/etx70.html

#2 Orbitor OR9000 6" motorised refractor. ~$200 CDN (local discount
warehouse)
http://www.citiwellint.com/manuals/O...RevSep1603.pdf

Here are my goals and guidlines...

A/. Something easy to use. I want something easy to use, so I like
the idea of the ETX70, calibrate and then enter the "GOTO" number and
boom you are in business. That kind of ease really apeals to me. Now
I should mention that I do have a nice PalmOS based skymap program
called "Planetarium" that has a library of all sorts of objects and
there position... if you know the position of an object is it just a
simple matter of moving your scope to that position? or is there more
involved... I don't want to be wasting all my time trying to find
things.

B/. Power. I'm not so interested in planetary viewing... I like the
idea of being able to "deep sky" objects like nebulae, stars,
galaxies, etc... but that being said... I would occasionly look at
planets... the upcomming commets and satellites

C/. Flexibility. I would eventually like to get a "Scopetronix"
adaptor for my Sony CD400 Mavica camera... and try some photography.
Now the Sony will only allow for a 8 sec exposure maximum (at f2.1-f8)
so It may be fruitless... although I took some great exposure shots
of the North Lights last year after the big solar flares. My concern
is the weight of the camera and the motor on the scope. Is the ETX70
motor strong enough to move with a digital camera attached? The 6"
Newtonian I'm thinking about has all sorts of counter balances... but
I don't know how strong its motor is...

So what are your thoughts everyone? I've heard tell of "apperature
fever"... so am I better off with the Orbitor 6" Newtonian? or Will I
be spending all me time trying to find things, so am I better off with
an ETX70?

Choices that you can possibly make, in order, as you mature in the hobby,
without losing anything on the investments. All of these are complimentary
tools of the hobby, which means you won't have to think about selling them
later.

#1 - 10x50 Binoculars and Terrence Dickensen's book, _Nigh****ch_.

If you like this hobby, and begin to have success using the charts in
_Nigh****ch_, then move up to:

#2 - Chinese 80mm F5 refractor (ST80) on an altitude-azimuth mounting with
slow motion controls, and the _Bright Star Altas_. Also pick up a good
barlow and a 9 or 10mm Plossl eyepiece to go with the typical 25mm Plossl
that comes with the ST80.

If you still like this hobby and have success using the charts in _Bright
Star Atlas_, then move up to:

#3 - 8" to 12" Dobsonian, depending on your personal limit for managing bulk
and weight, and _Sky Atlas 2000_. You already have the 10mm eyepiece and the
barlow from the ST80 purchase, but you should now add something in the 15mm
range.

If you are really hot on this hobby, and want to do some high power planet
imaging, then add:

#4 - Used 8" SCT on a good GEM, or well regarded Fork Mount and a CCD based
web cam.

Just some thoughts....

--
-Stephen Paul

Yeah I have a pair of 10x50 Bushnells... old but they do the trick. I
am amazed at dusk how many more stars can be seen through the
binoculars than with the naked eye.

I'm still keen on getting something... while the ETX-70 GOTO features
are neat it sounds like it is too small a scope.

OK... Same place that is selling the 6" Newtonian Reflector is also
selling this...

http://www.citiwellint.com/vu.php?pa...ng+Goods&age=+

a 90mm Maksutov-Cassegran with two 1.25" eyepieces (a 9mm and a 25mm)
for $189 CDN. It doesn't have an EQ mount or motor (nor the GOTO) but
it is larger than the ETX-70. My big concern is the mount... What
should I be looking for in a tripod/mount? I get the feeling that I
will want something with guides for setting azimuth,
elevation(altitude) and declination? or how how else does a newbie
end up finding things?







"Stephen Paul" wrote in message ...
Choices that you can possibly make, in order, as you mature in the hobby,
without losing anything on the investments. All of these are complimentary
tools of the hobby, which means you won't have to think about selling them
later.

#1 - 10x50 Binoculars and Terrence Dickensen's book, _Nigh****ch_.

If you like this hobby, and begin to have success using the charts in
_Nigh****ch_, then move up to:

#2 - Chinese 80mm F5 refractor (ST80) on an altitude-azimuth mounting with
slow motion controls, and the _Bright Star Altas_. Also pick up a good
barlow and a 9 or 10mm Plossl eyepiece to go with the typical 25mm Plossl
that comes with the ST80.

If you still like this hobby and have success using the charts in _Bright
Star Atlas_, then move up to:

#3 - 8" to 12" Dobsonian, depending on your personal limit for managing bulk
and weight, and _Sky Atlas 2000_. You already have the 10mm eyepiece and the
barlow from the ST80 purchase, but you should now add something in the 15mm
range.

If you are really hot on this hobby, and want to do some high power planet
imaging, then add:

#4 - Used 8" SCT on a good GEM, or well regarded Fork Mount and a CCD based
web cam.

Just some thoughts....