Hawaii (non)observing report

My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car. Despite reading in tour guides and hearing that the
Saddle Road was FORBIDDEN, I was never told this by the car rental
agency (Dollar), nor was it on the list of do's and don'ts on the map,
nor could I find it in the contract. However, I did hear the part
about the thin air, and we both had chest colds -- strike 1. Well, I
thought on the plane there, at least I can do some observing with
binoculars. Unfortunately, nothing but clouds. Perhaps it clears
early in the morning, but I was not eager to get up early on vacation.
Strike 2. My wife, not really into astronomy, but goes back and
forth between encouraging and teasing me, pointed out "Look, there are
some stars" as we were out one night. Looked up - I think it was
Arcturus, but it quickly ducked behind a cloud. Strike 3. I did have
a wonderful time with everything outside of astronomy (and even got
one clear pic of Mauna Kea with the twin Kecks on my last morning).

A couple of funny moments, however, with our bus tour guide one day.
We took a full day tour, and she managed to speak non-stop. I think I
learned something about volcanoes (it seems to me there is either a
book written or two be written that links volcanoes and planet
formation, no?), but I became doubtful with her astronomical
"knowledge." She pointed out that if we got a cloud-free night, we
would be able to see SEVEN planets at sunset! I figured even counting
Earth she was one short. An elementary teacher turned to us and asked
quietly "isn't it only 5?" "Yes," I nodded with a chuckle. Despite
her non-stop (and, admittedly, at times humerous) monologue, she only
spoke for 30 SECONDS (out of 10 hours!) about the observatories. She
told us "the largest telescopes in the world are the twin Keck
telescopes owned by the Keck corporation." We then passed a building
in Hilo with a sign reading "W.M. Keck Observatory," which she
indicated as the Keck Corporation Headquarters (I believe it was
probably an administrative building for UH-Hilo probably).

Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Clear skies all.

Erik
socalsw

I lived on Oahu, from 1970 to 1977 and then again 1989 to 1997, Know
all to well about the massive street light project the city of
Honolulu had going to light up the island of oahu.



--
Dragons Must Fly when Thread's in the Sky

www.starlords.org

"socalsw" wrote in message
om...
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car. Despite reading in tour guides and hearing that the
Saddle Road was FORBIDDEN, I was never told this by the car rental
agency (Dollar), nor was it on the list of do's and don'ts on the
map,
nor could I find it in the contract. However, I did hear the part
about the thin air, and we both had chest colds -- strike 1. Well,
I
thought on the plane there, at least I can do some observing with
binoculars. Unfortunately, nothing but clouds. Perhaps it clears
early in the morning, but I was not eager to get up early on
vacation.
Strike 2. My wife, not really into astronomy, but goes back and
forth between encouraging and teasing me, pointed out "Look, there
are
some stars" as we were out one night. Looked up - I think it was
Arcturus, but it quickly ducked behind a cloud. Strike 3. I did
have
a wonderful time with everything outside of astronomy (and even got
one clear pic of Mauna Kea with the twin Kecks on my last morning).

A couple of funny moments, however, with our bus tour guide one day.
We took a full day tour, and she managed to speak non-stop. I think
I
learned something about volcanoes (it seems to me there is either a
book written or two be written that links volcanoes and planet
formation, no?), but I became doubtful with her astronomical
"knowledge." She pointed out that if we got a cloud-free night, we
would be able to see SEVEN planets at sunset! I figured even
counting
Earth she was one short. An elementary teacher turned to us and
asked
quietly "isn't it only 5?" "Yes," I nodded with a chuckle. Despite
her non-stop (and, admittedly, at times humerous) monologue, she
only
spoke for 30 SECONDS (out of 10 hours!) about the observatories.
She
told us "the largest telescopes in the world are the twin Keck
telescopes owned by the Keck corporation." We then passed a
building
in Hilo with a sign reading "W.M. Keck Observatory," which she
indicated as the Keck Corporation Headquarters (I believe it was
probably an administrative building for UH-Hilo probably).

Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would
appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least
another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani
for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to
take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Clear skies all.

Erik
socalsw


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I lived on Oahu, from 1970 to 1977 and then again 1989 to 1997, Know
all to well about the massive street light project the city of
Honolulu had going to light up the island of oahu.



--
Dragons Must Fly when Thread's in the Sky

www.starlords.org

"socalsw" wrote in message
om...
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car. Despite reading in tour guides and hearing that the
Saddle Road was FORBIDDEN, I was never told this by the car rental
agency (Dollar), nor was it on the list of do's and don'ts on the
map,
nor could I find it in the contract. However, I did hear the part
about the thin air, and we both had chest colds -- strike 1. Well,
I
thought on the plane there, at least I can do some observing with
binoculars. Unfortunately, nothing but clouds. Perhaps it clears
early in the morning, but I was not eager to get up early on
vacation.
Strike 2. My wife, not really into astronomy, but goes back and
forth between encouraging and teasing me, pointed out "Look, there
are
some stars" as we were out one night. Looked up - I think it was
Arcturus, but it quickly ducked behind a cloud. Strike 3. I did
have
a wonderful time with everything outside of astronomy (and even got
one clear pic of Mauna Kea with the twin Kecks on my last morning).

A couple of funny moments, however, with our bus tour guide one day.
We took a full day tour, and she managed to speak non-stop. I think
I
learned something about volcanoes (it seems to me there is either a
book written or two be written that links volcanoes and planet
formation, no?), but I became doubtful with her astronomical
"knowledge." She pointed out that if we got a cloud-free night, we
would be able to see SEVEN planets at sunset! I figured even
counting
Earth she was one short. An elementary teacher turned to us and
asked
quietly "isn't it only 5?" "Yes," I nodded with a chuckle. Despite
her non-stop (and, admittedly, at times humerous) monologue, she
only
spoke for 30 SECONDS (out of 10 hours!) about the observatories.
She
told us "the largest telescopes in the world are the twin Keck
telescopes owned by the Keck corporation." We then passed a
building
in Hilo with a sign reading "W.M. Keck Observatory," which she
indicated as the Keck Corporation Headquarters (I believe it was
probably an administrative building for UH-Hilo probably).

Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would
appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least
another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani
for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to
take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Clear skies all.

Erik
socalsw


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Please give us another chance. I used to do the Mauna Kea star gazing
tour regularly. (That's about 4 or 5 times a week. Unfortunately, my body
couldn't handle the elevation change every day so I had to give it up.)
First, regarding the rent-a-car, you can go on Saddle Road with certain
companies 4 wheel drive cars. Harper's doesn't have the Saddle Road
exclusion, but, there may be others.
Second, this year we've had a horrible run of weather. At my home, I
haven't had a good night of "seeing" for a couple of weeks. That doesn't
mean that the visibility was bad on Mauna Kea, but, the roads can be
treacherous going to the visitor center, as well as, the rest of this
Island. According to the news, at this time last year we had three traffic
fatalities. This year we've had 15.
Third, I used to drive a tour bus and be the guide. Star gazing is such
a different subject compared to Hawaiiana and indigenous flora. I remember
having to research the navigational stars of the original Polynesians that
found Hawaii (if you're interested, try a web search for Hokulea and
Hokupaa). I'm not justifying the guide's lack of knowledge, but, I remember
(pre-astronomy studies) doing a 9 hour circle island tour and pointing to
the two Keck domes and the Subaru dome (during construction) and saying
"Those are some of our world class telescopes," end of astronomy tour.
Unfortunately, even in my studies to become a "certified" tour driver,
nothing was mentioned about astronomy. Perhaps one reason is the hotly
contested control of the mountain. The Hawaiians claim it as a religious
area that contains some "Heiaus" (places of worship). The US government
claims it is federal land, under control of the University of Hawaii. There
are even arguements over how many telescopes are really on the summit. Some
astronomers are claiming that the 2 Kecks are one because they are used
together.
Anyway, if you do try it again, check out
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/ for virtually all the information you
need for a successful, productive trip. Pay special attention to the daytime
trips to the summit. With a 4 wheel drive vehicle, you can go into some of
the telescope facilities and see the 8 to 10 meter mirrors. (Warning: "I
want one of those for Christmas" may be used against you in divorce court)

Aloha,
terry

"socalsw" wrote in message:
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car. Despite reading in tour guides and hearing that the
Saddle Road was FORBIDDEN, I was never told this by the car rental
agency (Dollar), nor was it on the list of do's and don'ts on the map,
nor could I find it in the contract. However, I did hear the part
about the thin air, and we both had chest colds -- strike 1. Well, I
thought on the plane there, at least I can do some observing with
binoculars. Unfortunately, nothing but clouds. Perhaps it clears
early in the morning, but I was not eager to get up early on vacation.
Strike 2. My wife, not really into astronomy, but goes back and
forth between encouraging and teasing me, pointed out "Look, there are
some stars" as we were out one night. Looked up - I think it was
Arcturus, but it quickly ducked behind a cloud. Strike 3. I did have
a wonderful time with everything outside of astronomy (and even got
one clear pic of Mauna Kea with the twin Kecks on my last morning).

A couple of funny moments, however, with our bus tour guide one day.
We took a full day tour, and she managed to speak non-stop. I think I
learned something about volcanoes (it seems to me there is either a
book written or two be written that links volcanoes and planet
formation, no?), but I became doubtful with her astronomical
"knowledge." She pointed out that if we got a cloud-free night, we
would be able to see SEVEN planets at sunset! I figured even counting
Earth she was one short. An elementary teacher turned to us and asked
quietly "isn't it only 5?" "Yes," I nodded with a chuckle. Despite
her non-stop (and, admittedly, at times humerous) monologue, she only
spoke for 30 SECONDS (out of 10 hours!) about the observatories. She
told us "the largest telescopes in the world are the twin Keck
telescopes owned by the Keck corporation." We then passed a building
in Hilo with a sign reading "W.M. Keck Observatory," which she
indicated as the Keck Corporation Headquarters (I believe it was
probably an administrative building for UH-Hilo probably).

Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Clear skies all.

Erik
socalsw

Please give us another chance. I used to do the Mauna Kea star gazing
tour regularly. (That's about 4 or 5 times a week. Unfortunately, my body
couldn't handle the elevation change every day so I had to give it up.)
First, regarding the rent-a-car, you can go on Saddle Road with certain
companies 4 wheel drive cars. Harper's doesn't have the Saddle Road
exclusion, but, there may be others.
Second, this year we've had a horrible run of weather. At my home, I
haven't had a good night of "seeing" for a couple of weeks. That doesn't
mean that the visibility was bad on Mauna Kea, but, the roads can be
treacherous going to the visitor center, as well as, the rest of this
Island. According to the news, at this time last year we had three traffic
fatalities. This year we've had 15.
Third, I used to drive a tour bus and be the guide. Star gazing is such
a different subject compared to Hawaiiana and indigenous flora. I remember
having to research the navigational stars of the original Polynesians that
found Hawaii (if you're interested, try a web search for Hokulea and
Hokupaa). I'm not justifying the guide's lack of knowledge, but, I remember
(pre-astronomy studies) doing a 9 hour circle island tour and pointing to
the two Keck domes and the Subaru dome (during construction) and saying
"Those are some of our world class telescopes," end of astronomy tour.
Unfortunately, even in my studies to become a "certified" tour driver,
nothing was mentioned about astronomy. Perhaps one reason is the hotly
contested control of the mountain. The Hawaiians claim it as a religious
area that contains some "Heiaus" (places of worship). The US government
claims it is federal land, under control of the University of Hawaii. There
are even arguements over how many telescopes are really on the summit. Some
astronomers are claiming that the 2 Kecks are one because they are used
together.
Anyway, if you do try it again, check out
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/ for virtually all the information you
need for a successful, productive trip. Pay special attention to the daytime
trips to the summit. With a 4 wheel drive vehicle, you can go into some of
the telescope facilities and see the 8 to 10 meter mirrors. (Warning: "I
want one of those for Christmas" may be used against you in divorce court)

Aloha,
terry

"socalsw" wrote in message:
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car. Despite reading in tour guides and hearing that the
Saddle Road was FORBIDDEN, I was never told this by the car rental
agency (Dollar), nor was it on the list of do's and don'ts on the map,
nor could I find it in the contract. However, I did hear the part
about the thin air, and we both had chest colds -- strike 1. Well, I
thought on the plane there, at least I can do some observing with
binoculars. Unfortunately, nothing but clouds. Perhaps it clears
early in the morning, but I was not eager to get up early on vacation.
Strike 2. My wife, not really into astronomy, but goes back and
forth between encouraging and teasing me, pointed out "Look, there are
some stars" as we were out one night. Looked up - I think it was
Arcturus, but it quickly ducked behind a cloud. Strike 3. I did have
a wonderful time with everything outside of astronomy (and even got
one clear pic of Mauna Kea with the twin Kecks on my last morning).

A couple of funny moments, however, with our bus tour guide one day.
We took a full day tour, and she managed to speak non-stop. I think I
learned something about volcanoes (it seems to me there is either a
book written or two be written that links volcanoes and planet
formation, no?), but I became doubtful with her astronomical
"knowledge." She pointed out that if we got a cloud-free night, we
would be able to see SEVEN planets at sunset! I figured even counting
Earth she was one short. An elementary teacher turned to us and asked
quietly "isn't it only 5?" "Yes," I nodded with a chuckle. Despite
her non-stop (and, admittedly, at times humerous) monologue, she only
spoke for 30 SECONDS (out of 10 hours!) about the observatories. She
told us "the largest telescopes in the world are the twin Keck
telescopes owned by the Keck corporation." We then passed a building
in Hilo with a sign reading "W.M. Keck Observatory," which she
indicated as the Keck Corporation Headquarters (I believe it was
probably an administrative building for UH-Hilo probably).

Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Clear skies all.

Erik
socalsw

"socalsw" wrote in message
om...
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.
*snip*
Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Sorry it didn't work out... our weather (cloud wise) has been as bad as I
can remember. We did luck out the night of the triple transit, but overall
it's been just nasty. Of course you get a raincheck! Drop me a line in 5
years!

"socalsw" wrote in message
om...
My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.
*snip*
Anyway, Hawaii was great, but before my next trip, I would appreciate
any other experiences. Take your time -- it will be at least another
5 years. But Hawaii is a beautiful place, and worth a visit even if
the sky does not cooperate. Finally, a big thank you to Kilolani for
his invitation to come to his club's starparty. I was unable to take
you up on it, but will take a rain check, if you do not mind.

Sorry it didn't work out... our weather (cloud wise) has been as bad as I
can remember. We did luck out the night of the triple transit, but overall
it's been just nasty. Of course you get a raincheck! Drop me a line in 5
years!

I went to Hawaii in '75 as a kid. We had a great time, but I do not
remember any stargazing. We did go to the top of Haleakala (sp?) during
the day, and saw a large telescope.

In '91, I went for the big eclipse. This was a tour geared for amateur
astronomers. They did a pretty good job.

I think I must have been on that same bus tour though! LOL!

Here is the strange part:

The night before the eclipse, the tour leaders decided that we should go
to the chosen observing site, NOW! They were afraid that the roads
would be jammed the next day. (Newsflash! There is a fixed number of
cars on Hawaii! You can not drive in to see the eclipse! Almost the
entire island was in the path of totality). But for some reason, most
of us believed him, and packed up our gear, and our blankets and pillows
from our comfortable rooms in the Hilton Hotel, and off we went!

It was not far away, but there were absolutely no facilities. We
literally slept on rocks and sand. It rained a little during the night
and was mostly cloudy. In the morning there were no more cars on the
road then the day before. SHOCK!

We did get to see the Eclipse, at least part of it. Totality started,
and about 2 minutes later, clouds obscured the view. Later, we found
out that not far away, people saw the whole thing (like my wife, who
stayed in the hotel). But other people saw nothing, not far away in the
other direction (like my uncle, who was no more than 5 miles away).

We took the tour bus up to the vistor's center a day later. The
crescent moon was spectacular that night! When we got to the visitor's
center, they had an SCT (C8, C11 ?) set up. Of course, they had lights
on outside all around the center!!! AAARGH!!!

So, ignoring the telescope, I wandered off away from the lights and set
up a camera and used a pair of binoculars. There were so may stars, I
could not get acclimated! Finally, I found the Northern Cross, and
began to get my bearings. Being at a different latitude made it harder
too.

This may not be the darkest place in Hawaii, but it was off the scale in
darkness for me! It was cold, but not windy. I remember wearing 3
T-shirts and still being cold, because I had not brought a coat to a
tropical island in July. Silly me. :-)

The photos I took of the center of the milky way were 10x better than
any I had ever taken in upstate NY.

All in all, a memorable trip!

socalsw wrote:

My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car.
....
Erik
socalsw

--
Tom Rankin - Programmer by day, amateur astronomer by night!
Mid-Hudson Astronomy Association - http://jump.to/mhaa

When replying, remove the capital letters from my email address.

I went to Hawaii in '75 as a kid. We had a great time, but I do not
remember any stargazing. We did go to the top of Haleakala (sp?) during
the day, and saw a large telescope.

In '91, I went for the big eclipse. This was a tour geared for amateur
astronomers. They did a pretty good job.

I think I must have been on that same bus tour though! LOL!

Here is the strange part:

The night before the eclipse, the tour leaders decided that we should go
to the chosen observing site, NOW! They were afraid that the roads
would be jammed the next day. (Newsflash! There is a fixed number of
cars on Hawaii! You can not drive in to see the eclipse! Almost the
entire island was in the path of totality). But for some reason, most
of us believed him, and packed up our gear, and our blankets and pillows
from our comfortable rooms in the Hilton Hotel, and off we went!

It was not far away, but there were absolutely no facilities. We
literally slept on rocks and sand. It rained a little during the night
and was mostly cloudy. In the morning there were no more cars on the
road then the day before. SHOCK!

We did get to see the Eclipse, at least part of it. Totality started,
and about 2 minutes later, clouds obscured the view. Later, we found
out that not far away, people saw the whole thing (like my wife, who
stayed in the hotel). But other people saw nothing, not far away in the
other direction (like my uncle, who was no more than 5 miles away).

We took the tour bus up to the vistor's center a day later. The
crescent moon was spectacular that night! When we got to the visitor's
center, they had an SCT (C8, C11 ?) set up. Of course, they had lights
on outside all around the center!!! AAARGH!!!

So, ignoring the telescope, I wandered off away from the lights and set
up a camera and used a pair of binoculars. There were so may stars, I
could not get acclimated! Finally, I found the Northern Cross, and
began to get my bearings. Being at a different latitude made it harder
too.

This may not be the darkest place in Hawaii, but it was off the scale in
darkness for me! It was cold, but not windy. I remember wearing 3
T-shirts and still being cold, because I had not brought a coat to a
tropical island in July. Silly me. :-)

The photos I took of the center of the milky way were 10x better than
any I had ever taken in upstate NY.

All in all, a memorable trip!

socalsw wrote:

My wife and I came back earlier this week from Hawaii (the big
island), though I with dissapointment from big hopes of stargazing,
though with a couple of funny moments with a tour guide.

I had been looking forward to at least seeing the visitor center at
Mauna Kea, and might have even been willing to drive there in my
rental car.
....
Erik
socalsw

--
Tom Rankin - Programmer by day, amateur astronomer by night!
Mid-Hudson Astronomy Association - http://jump.to/mhaa

When replying, remove the capital letters from my email address.

I live in Hauula, ( Oahu ) at that date, and it rained the whole day.


--
Dragons Must Fly when Thread's in the Sky

www.starlords.org

"Tom Rankin" wrote in message
...
I went to Hawaii in '75 as a kid. We had a great time, but I do not
remember any stargazing. We did go to the top of Haleakala (sp?)
during
the day, and saw a large telescope.

In '91, I went for the big eclipse. This was a tour geared for
amateur
astronomers. They did a pretty good job.

..


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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