pioneer 10 acceleration

In message , alistair
writes
In message , alistair
writes
Dark energy could be causing the anomalous acceleration of pioneer
10.
The solar system is surrounded by the spherical Oort cloud.If dark
energy consists of particles that flow into the galaxy, the Oort
cloud
would shield
the solar system from those particles.However a gap in the Oort cloud
would allow some dark energy particles to flow into the solar system.


ANDRE?MICHAUD wrote:

There are a few problems with this idea :-)

The paper by Anderson et al. which everyone cites is available online
at
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/http://www....gr-qc/0104064. It has figures
for the mass of
the Pioneers (223 kg dry mass) and their surface area (or at least
that
of the dish antenna, which accounts for nearly all of it. It's a 2.74
meter dish giving an area of 5.9 square meters.
Also, the two Pioneers are going in nearly opposite directions.


ALISTAIR writes:

The mass and surface area you quote for Pioneer 10 would give an
acceleration for Pioneer 10 that is roughly only one third smaller
than the figure I calculated of 10^ -12 m/s^2.The correct figure NASA
gives is 10^-10 m /s^2.
However, if dark energy consists of particles with rest mass and these
particles in our part of the Milky Way move at 99.9999 per cent the
speed of light then there would be a relativistic mass increase by a
factor of 10000 compared to the average expectation for dark energy
mass which would have to be moving at a speed of around 1/3 that of
light.Whether or not dark energy actually has a different mass density
in galaxies compared to intergalactic space,I couldn't say.There is
also the possibility that dark energy coming through a gap in the Oort
cloud could pick up speed and mass if it has fluid like properties (
though I think such a Bernouilli flow is unlikely given how large the
mass increase would be).Both these factors could give the acceleration
NASA quotes.The fact that the Pioneers are moving in opposite
directions is irrelevant because the Oort cloud could have other gaps
in it which allow dark energy particles into the solar sytem.

I hope you can sort out your attributions :-)
That's my reply you're quoting.
And I have an even bigger problem with the nature of the particles
making up your "dark energy". What sort of particle density are you
assuming - how many per m^3, for instance?
It looks to me as though you're proposing some sort of relativistic
particle, a new sort of cosmic ray, and I'm sure they would have been
detected in other ways. I don't see how they could be blocked by
anything in the outer solar system to produce the sort of localised flux
you need, or how they could deliver momentum to the Pioneers.
It gets worse! I've already mentioned Galileo, and the "Pioneer effect"
has also been reported for Ulysses. That's four probes in different
parts of the solar system.

JONATHAN SILVERLIGHT asked ALISTAIR:
"How many dark energy particles are there per m^3"

ALISTAIR replies:

If the cosmic microwave background is losing energy because dark
energy is gradually absorbing microwave photons, the answer goes as
follows,assuming the universe has a small net magnetic field,and dark
energy particles have spin and charge and mass and can be promoted
from one spin energy state to another
by cmbr photons.
The average cmbr photon energy is about 10^-22 Joules.
So the difference in energy between dark energy particle spin states
in the magnetic field of the universe needs to be 10^ - 22 Joules.
An electron has a spin energy difference in a magnetic field of 10^ -
24 J/Tesla.
Looking at the equation for the magnetic moment of an electron:

u1 -u2 = (1/2 + 1/2) x g e h / 2 m = 10^ - 24

If we leave everything the same for dark energy particles but change
the mass
to 10^ -2 x mass of electron = 10^ -33 kg
then u1 -u2 for the dark energy particle = 10^ - 22 = energy of cmbr
photon

This is for a field of 1 Tesla.
The magnetic field of the universe as a whole is about 10^ -14 Tesla.

So u1 - u2 for the dark energy particle OF mass 10^ - 33 kg is
10^ - 22 x 10^ -14 = 10 ^ -36 J.

Therefore to absorb a cmbr photon with energy 10^ - 22 J the dark
energy particle must have a mass 10^ - 22/ 10^ - 36 times smaller = 10
^ 14 times smaller.This would be 10 ^ - 47 kg.

Since the density of dark energy particles is 10^ - 27 kg / m^3 then
there would be 10^ - 27 / 10 ^ -47 particles / m^3.
This is 10^ 20 particles/ m ^ 3

About 1000 dark energy particles for every millimetre in distance.

Jonathan Silverlight wrote in message ...


ANDRE?MICHAUD wrote:

....

I hope you can sort out your attributions :-)

I have no idea how my name got into this post.

I made no contribution whatsoever to this conversation.

André Michaud