Mars Roover Curiosity already crippled before launch

The PU-238 RTG has problems. The roover was bound for a launch in 2008:

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/0....html#comments
From the report: Department of Energy officials stated that the power
degradation issue is unlikely to cause a catastrophic failure. However,
as a cautionary measure, MSL Project managers have reduced the missionÆs
performance capabilities to processing 28 rather than 74 soil and rock
samples and to traversing 4.5 kilometers rather than 20 kilometers.

For some reason, this seriously reduced capability was not highlighted
elsewhere in the report.

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.


## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

On Jun 20, 4:57*am, wrote:
The PU-238 RTG has problems. The roover was bound for a launch in 2008:

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/0....html#comments
* From the report: Department of Energy officials stated that the power
* degradation issue is unlikely to cause a catastrophic failure. However,
* as a cautionary measure, MSL Project managers have reduced the missionÆs
* performance capabilities to processing 28 rather than 74 soil and rock
* samples and to traversing 4.5 kilometers rather than 20 kilometers.

* For some reason, this seriously reduced capability was not highlighted
* elsewhere in the report.

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

DONT LAUNCH TILL ITS READY!

Sounds like the JWST debacle.

NASA is now oncapable of even launching robotic craft

Just like our country

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:02:34 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

DONT LAUNCH TILL ITS READY!

Sounds like the JWST debacle.

Huh? I haven't heard of any JWST technical problems, just that it is
taking a lot longer to build and test than they expected. And we
certainly didn't launch JWST before it was ready, since it is still on
the ground.

Brian

On 20 Jun 2011 10:57:00 +0200, wrote:


The PU-238 RTG has problems. The roover was bound for a launch in 2008:

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/0....html#comments
From the report: Department of Energy officials stated that the power
degradation issue is unlikely to cause a catastrophic failure. However,
as a cautionary measure, MSL Project managers have reduced the missionÆs
performance capabilities to processing 28 rather than 74 soil and rock
samples and to traversing 4.5 kilometers rather than 20 kilometers.

For some reason, this seriously reduced capability was not highlighted
elsewhere in the report.

Remember that this is the baseline (contract required) capability.
Like Spirit and Opportunity, Curiosity will probably greatly exceed
these requirements.

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.

Curiosity will be transmitting most of its data back to Earth through
MRO and Odyssey, so that's not a problem.

Brian

On Jun 20, 10:24*am, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:02:34 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

DONT LAUNCH TILL ITS READY!

Sounds like the JWST debacle.

Huh? I haven't heard of any JWST technical problems, just that it is
taking a lot longer to build and test than they expected. And we
certainly didn't launch JWST before it was ready, since it is still on
the ground.

Brian

its tech issues have doubled the schedule and its still not ready. its
very complex and no service possible, its budget is thru the roof

On 20 Jun 2011 10:57:00 +0200, wrote:


The PU-238 RTG has problems. The roover was bound for a launch in 2008:

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/0....html#comments
From the report: Department of Energy officials stated that the power
degradation issue is unlikely to cause a catastrophic failure. However,
as a cautionary measure, MSL Project managers have reduced the missionÆs
performance capabilities to processing 28 rather than 74 soil and rock
samples and to traversing 4.5 kilometers rather than 20 kilometers.

For some reason, this seriously reduced capability was not highlighted
elsewhere in the report.

Remember that this is the baseline (contract required) capability.
Like Spirit and Opportunity, Curiosity will probably greatly exceed
these requirements.


You are right. But this time it has to exceed the new base 5 times just
to get the original one. For anything more you realy need a lot of hope.
We dont know how the line of decline looks. Could be bad.

The OIG report said "unexpected degradation". PU-238 half-life is 88 years.
So I expect a new type of RTG thermocouples degraded and they have no
replacement. It is in prototype phase, has 110 We (2 kW thermal) nominal
by 4 kg Pu. Btw, the RTG is 100% DoE and build by Boeing, no fault at NASA.
They hide the percentage power loss from public but the 4.5 km to 20 km
gives a hint. Probably the power for data transmission is now restricted
too. That means considerable less images to expect. Still worth launch?
Maybe.

Curiosity will be transmitting most of its data back to Earth through
MRO and Odyssey, so that's not a problem.

Brian

No, its a problem. The uplink equipment was designed to expect a reliable
power source. RTGs are the most reliable sources you can get. No moveable
parts, all solid state and DoE had over 50 years very succesfule
expierence in building this stuff. So unlike the solar MER roovers,
power was granted. You dont oversize the com system then. With enough
power they could about keep the size of the antenna and still uplink much
more data. If the power is now restricted they have to reduce the data
transmission rate. They have no time or mass budget to put a bigger dish
on the roover now.

Take a look at the wikipedia page of MSL. Even stuff from ESA and Russia
on board. It is a rolling science lab of the best planet earth could send
today. Look at the lot of cameras. It will be the most expensive multi
billion dollar Mars mission since the 1970s Vikings. It is the roover the
world was waiting for 30 years. For this groundbreaking mission DoE
delivered a "prototype" piece of nuclear **** that breaks down under its
own radiation. Any words to describe this?



## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

wrote:

Take a look at the wikipedia page of MSL. Even stuff from ESA and
Russia on board. It is a rolling science lab of the best planet
earth could send today. Look at the lot of cameras. It will be the
most expensive multi billion dollar Mars mission since the 1970s
Vikings. It is the roover the world was waiting for 30 years. For
this groundbreaking mission DoE delivered a "prototype" piece of
nuclear **** that breaks down under its own radiation. Any words to
describe this?

I suspect the Great Galactic Ghoul will simpy say "Yum."

rick jones
--
I don't interest myself in "why." I think more often in terms of
"when," sometimes "where;" always "how much." - Joubert
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

On 6/21/2011 11:30 AM, Rick Jones wrote:
wrote:

Take a look at the wikipedia page of MSL. Even stuff from ESA and
Russia on board. It is a rolling science lab of the best planet
earth could send today. Look at the lot of cameras. It will be the
most expensive multi billion dollar Mars mission since the 1970s
Vikings. It is the roover the world was waiting for 30 years. For
this groundbreaking mission DoE delivered a "prototype" piece of
nuclear **** that breaks down under its own radiation. Any words to
describe this?

I suspect the Great Galactic Ghoul will simpy say "Yum."

I'm waiting for Phobos-Grunt and to see what will go wrong for the
Russians this time: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_2011.html

Pat

On Jun 21, 11:12*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 6/21/2011 11:30 AM, Rick Jones wrote:

wrote:

Take a look at the wikipedia page of MSL. Even stuff from ESA and
Russia on board. It is a rolling science lab of the best planet
earth could send today. Look at the lot of cameras. It will be the
most expensive multi billion dollar Mars mission since the 1970s
Vikings. It is the roover the world was waiting for 30 years. For
this groundbreaking mission DoE delivered a "prototype" piece of
nuclear **** that breaks down under its own radiation. Any words to
describe this?

I suspect the Great Galactic Ghoul will simpy say "Yum."

I'm waiting for Phobos-Grunt and to see what will go wrong for the
Russians this time:http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_2011.html

Pat

they should NOT launch a spacecraft with a known fault. nasa really
doesnt need any more negative press

I wonder how long it would take to equip this vehicle with a proper
functioning power source?