UN and America MUST HELP...Libya....Egypt...NOW!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Nice Goal. Unfortunately I remember when we welcomed Castro for bringing
Democracy to Cuba (short lived emotion). I also remember news coverage of
the Palestinian kids celebrating and throwing candy in the street after
9/11. My guess is most of the guys in the street are looking for a
fundamentalist "democratic" anti-western government. I hope I'm wrong but
believe we'll end with a lot more Venezualas.


Val Kraut

On 2/23/2011 9:25 PM, Val Kraut wrote:
The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Nice Goal. Unfortunately I remember when we welcomed Castro for bringing
Democracy to Cuba (short lived emotion).

Hey, at least Che stayed true to the revolution, when those Soviets came
in, he got out.
That was the wonderful thing about Che...he figured out who needed to
shot without trial early on, and never wavered from his original
convictions.
That is the mark of a _great_ revolutionary leader. :-)

Pat

On 2/23/2011 9:25 PM, Val Kraut wrote:
The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Nice Goal. Unfortunately I remember when we welcomed Castro for bringing
Democracy to Cuba (short lived emotion). I also remember news coverage of
the Palestinian kids celebrating and throwing candy in the street after
9/11. My guess is most of the guys in the street are looking for a
fundamentalist "democratic" anti-western government. I hope I'm wrong but
believe we'll end with a lot more Venezualas.

Hey, at least Che stayed true to the Cuban revolution - when those
Soviets came in, he got out.
That was the wonderful thing about Che...he figured out who needed to be
shot without trial early on, and never wavered from his original
convictions.
That is the mark of a _great_ revolutionary leader.
He also had the whole revolutionary style look nailed to a "T".
Castro looked frumpy; Che could have knocked up Jane Fonda with a phone
call. ;-)

Pat

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:38:18 -0500, Jonathan wrote:

WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all that follow,
succeed in replacing dictatorships with democracy.

There should be some multinational force capable of intervening in a
situation like Libya, helping the new government form by consent. Then
provide crucial nation building assistance when security returns.

This is a historic opportunity to build a template for the future. For
continuing the spread of freedom and democracy world wide.
So every dictator can see today the 'formula' for their own demise.

It would be incredibly sad to let all this end up fizzling out, while
the world stood by, watching with hands in pockets.

Meaningful CHANGE is far easier, cheaper and more HUMANE to accomplish
during these critical points in history. Right now!

America should...MUST ...be much more assertive right now. They'll soon
be shouting "Death to America" but only if we do ...nothing. And watch
one dictator merely replace another.

No Fear!

Jonathan


s

Let' see here... this 'we' read Iraq and Afghanistan so well and all...
'we' should 'go in' and help (read:force) people basically to do what
this 'we' wants them to do? All of 'them' of course are not going to see
this as yet another US invasion.

Cheaper? How many private contractors would this take?

No Common Sense!

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

There should be some multinational force capable
of intervening in a situation like Libya, helping the
new government form by consent. Then provide
crucial nation building assistance when security
returns.

Yeah, we tried that in Iraq and Afghanastan. Didn't
work. Camel drivers and sheep herders don't
understand democracy.

This is a historic opportunity to build a template
for the future. For continuing the spread of
freedom and democracy world wide.
So every dictator can see today the 'formula'
for their own demise.

But we would **** it up just like we have every
other time we have interfeared in another nation's
politics.

It would be incredibly sad to let all this end up
fizzling out, while the world stood by, watching
with hands in pockets.

You haven't been paying attention to Iraq and Afghanastan,
they don't want democracy, they want their tribal ways.

Meaningful CHANGE is far easier, cheaper and more
HUMANE to accomplish during these critical points
in history. Right now!

Meaninful change would be for the U.S. to keep it's nose
out of other nation's business.


America should...MUST ...be much more assertive
right now. They'll soon be shouting "Death to America"
but only if we do ...nothing. And watch one dictator
merely replace another.

No Fear!

Jonathan


s

"UN and America MUST HELP...Libya....Egypt...NOW!"

For anyone who believes that the UN must help, this is from the UN
Charter (Chapter I, Article 2):
-----
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United
Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the
domestic jurisdiction of any state...
-----

The UN was set up to prevent and intervene in *international*
situations, not domestic ones. So for the UN to take action, they
could change their charter. Alternatively, factions within Egypt
could claim independence. Once the UN recognized their status as a
separate state, then it magically becomes an international situation.
This is how Yugoslavia went down in what had essentially been an
internal crisis. This is an extremely intriguing fine line at the
gray area of international law. What is the threshold? Can 100
people claim independence, then all of a sudden it becomes an
international thing which would then fit under UN purview? I'm
surprised that the aftermath of Yugoslavia didn't spur an exacting
definition for the UN.

As far as the US intervening militarily, the UN Charter prohibits that
as well. Unless invited by Gaddafi, such action would constitute an
illegal invasion. (Not that the US hasn't entrenched a reputation for
doing such things contrary to UN obligation.)

What I would like to see done is the expansion of the UN Charter. The
current situation is akin to having a town where police are prohibited
from taking action for domestic attrocities that might happen under
the roof of a single family's house.


~ CT


On Feb 24, 11:26*am, John Stafford wrote:
In article ,

*"Jonathan" wrote:
WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Great idea. Let's begin by making the USA a democracy.

Alternatively, factions within Egypt

* Libya.

I mixed up my revolutions. And this mistake is reflective of my
desire for such change to be effective across the board.

~ CT


On Feb 24, 2:59*pm, Stuf4 wrote:
"UN and America MUST HELP...Libya....Egypt...NOW!"

For anyone who believes that the UN must help, this is from the UN
Charter (Chapter I, Article 2):
-----
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United
Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the
domestic jurisdiction of any state...
-----

The UN was set up to prevent and intervene in *international*
situations, not domestic ones. *So for the UN to take action, they
could change their charter. *Alternatively, factions within Egypt
could claim independence. *Once the UN recognized their status as a
separate state, then it magically becomes an international situation.
This is how Yugoslavia went down in what had essentially been an
internal crisis. *This is an extremely intriguing fine line at the
gray area of international law. *What is the threshold? *Can 100
people claim independence, then all of a sudden it becomes an
international thing which would then fit under UN purview? *I'm
surprised that the aftermath of Yugoslavia didn't spur an exacting
definition for the UN.

As far as the US intervening militarily, the UN Charter prohibits that
as well. *Unless invited by Gaddafi, such action would constitute an
illegal invasion. *(Not that the US hasn't entrenched a reputation for
doing such things contrary to UN obligation.)

What I would like to see done is the expansion of the UN Charter. *The
current situation is akin to having a town where police are prohibited
from taking action for domestic attrocities that might happen under
the roof of a single family's house.

~ CT

On Feb 24, 11:26*am, John Stafford wrote:



In article ,

*"Jonathan" wrote:
WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Great idea. Let's begin by making the USA a democracy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Feb 24, 6:51*am, "Fred Brown" wrote:
"Jonathan" wrote in message

...



WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

There should be some multinational force capable
of intervening in a situation like Libya, helping the
new government form by consent. Then provide
crucial *nation building assistance when security
returns.

Yeah, we tried that in Iraq and Afghanastan. Didn't
work. Camel drivers and sheep herders don't
understand democracy.

This is a historic opportunity to build a template
for the future. For continuing the spread of
freedom and democracy world wide.
So every dictator can see today the 'formula'
for their own demise.

But we would **** it up just like we have every
other time we have interfeared in another nation's
politics.

It would be incredibly sad to let all this end up
fizzling out, while the world stood by, watching
with hands in pockets.

You haven't been paying attention to Iraq and Afghanastan,
they don't want democracy, they want their tribal ways.

Meaningful CHANGE is far easier, cheaper and more
HUMANE to accomplish during these critical points
in history. Right now!

Meaninful change would be for the U.S. to keep it's nose
out of other nation's business.



America should...MUST ...be much more assertive
right now. They'll soon be shouting "Death to America"
but only if we do ...nothing. And watch one dictator
merely replace another.

No Fear!

Jonathan

s

Calling World Citizens!!

PLEASE JOIN THE

WORLD CITIZENS FOR LIBYA
facebook group and ADD OR INVITE ALL YOUR FRIENDS! THIS CAN HELP!!!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...oup_ac tivity

Our Goal is to get the whole world to speak out regarding Libya. Of
all the mideast countries this is the only one with people being
massacred by a lunitic that will fight till the end. And he hass 95%
of the weapons. SPREAD THE WORD!!!

LIBYA NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT AND THIS GROUP NEEDS TO GO VIRAL! They are in
extreme danger !!! PLEAS HELP!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

On Feb 24, 2:59*pm, Stuf4 wrote:
"UN and America MUST HELP...Libya....Egypt...NOW!"

For anyone who believes that the UN must help, this is from the UN
Charter (Chapter I, Article 2):
-----
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United
Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the
domestic jurisdiction of any state...
-----

The UN was set up to prevent and intervene in *international*
situations, not domestic ones. *So for the UN to take action, they
could change their charter. *Alternatively, factions within Egypt
could claim independence. *Once the UN recognized their status as a
separate state, then it magically becomes an international situation.
This is how Yugoslavia went down in what had essentially been an
internal crisis. *This is an extremely intriguing fine line at the
gray area of international law. *What is the threshold? *Can 100
people claim independence, then all of a sudden it becomes an
international thing which would then fit under UN purview? *I'm
surprised that the aftermath of Yugoslavia didn't spur an exacting
definition for the UN.

As far as the US intervening militarily, the UN Charter prohibits that
as well. *Unless invited by Gaddafi, such action would constitute an
illegal invasion. *(Not that the US hasn't entrenched a reputation for
doing such things contrary to UN obligation.)

What I would like to see done is the expansion of the UN Charter. *The
current situation is akin to having a town where police are prohibited
from taking action for domestic attrocities that might happen under
the roof of a single family's house.

~ CT

On Feb 24, 11:26*am, John Stafford wrote:



In article ,

*"Jonathan" wrote:
WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

Great idea. Let's begin by making the USA a democracy.

Calling World Citizens!!

PLEASE JOIN THE

WORLD CITIZENS FOR LIBYA
facebook group and ADD OR INVITE ALL YOUR FRIENDS! THIS CAN HELP!!!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...oup_ac tivity

Our Goal is to get the whole world to speak out regarding Libya. Of
all the mideast countries this is the only one with people being
massacred by a lunitic that will fight till the end. And he hass 95%
of the weapons. SPREAD THE WORD!!!

LIBYA NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT AND THIS GROUP NEEDS TO GO VIRAL! They are in
extreme danger !!! PLEAS HELP!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

In article ,
"Jonathan" wrote:

WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DO
THE RIGHT THING!

The 'right thing' is to help these revolutions, and all
that follow, succeed in replacing dictatorships with
democracy.

What if a majority of people in some or all of those nations don't want
anything to do with democracy?

Force it on them?

--
Neolibertarian

"[The American People] know that we don't have deficits
because people are taxed too little; we have deficits
because big government spends too much."
---Ronald Reagan