If We Only Had Higher Perceptual Abilities, We Could Understand Our Universe

An Eastern Approach To Understanding Our Universe

The Evolution Of The Universe

The eleven factors that everything is made up of at the below sub
atomic level are,

energy
space
time
sound and vibrations
speed
force
motion
flow
continuity
matter
cohesiveness

Energy

This universe is made up of pure energy, as I've mentioned before.
That is, it evolved out of pure energy, pure space, pure time, and
pure sound, plus several other factors as noted above and that we'll
learn about as we go along. Unlocking energies from atoms is a risky
business. We need only look at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the atolls
across the Pacific to see what kind of devastation it causes.
Unlocking energies from radioactive materials in power plants that use
the heat to create steam to turn turbines to produce electricity is
also waste/pollution producing, and no one can get rid of that waste/
pollution that will be around for millions of years. We need to find
an alternative approach to unlocking and using the energies that are
all around us in our environment, to make it a safer solution to
harvesting these energies that are everywhere around us.

Space

We are surrounded by space. Every one knows that. There is little to
say about it, except that it is infinite, and boundless. If we go
beyond our universe, do you think things just stop there? Of course
they do not. Space is there, extending outwards in all directions.
People think that there was a Big Bang that set our universe off, and
that before that, there was nothing except for the makings of what
would later be called the Big Bang. Somehow, according to these people
who hold this idea, everything, including time, was condensed into a
nearly beyond infinitely small bubble. To these people, even time had
a starting point, much like they see it at a race track when the
whistle blows, or at a swim meet, or basketball game, and so on. Can
you imagine that? Time not existing before the moment of the Big Bang,
and compacting everything that exists into a bubble the size of
something far smaller than anything we can even imagine - millions
plus times smaller than a proton, is how some describe it.

And as if they were at a race track, where someone blows a horn and
the horses begin raceing, all of a sudden, everything that exists and
that was compacted into that tiny ball, suddenly sprang forth, matter
was "created". This is nothing other than the story of how the
Christian God created the universe, except they left out any mention
or reference to him/her. It's a lot of foolish nonsense if you ask me.
It only goes to prove they can't figure it out, so they'll make it up
as they go along, sort of.

Time And The Human Mind

Scientists call it a dimensionless quantity. Is it, or does it in fact
have dimensions to it? I posit that time is not dimensionless. How
does that sit with all the physicists and scientists? This seems to be
a fundamental issue here, whether or not time has a dimension. I can
only say, that based on my experience, I know quite clearly that time
flows in a dimension from the eternal infinite past, to the present,
which is also eternal in a sense, and in another sense, the present is
infinite if you are smart enough or lucky enough, or have the
perceptual awareness to figure that out, and time continues to flow
onwards to the eternal, infinite future.

This quality of being infinite seems to be something that needs a
little more explanation. Without beginning, is looking at it from the
present to the past, and without end, is looking at it from the
present to the future. Can we see in the present moment, something
infinite? Theoretically, I would have to say, yes we can. But, there
is a problem. Our senses are not accustomed to looking at the present
as anything more than a fleeting moment that flies by, as we work, or
study, or whatever. If somehow we can elevate our senses so that they
can perceive better the present moment, than maybe we could see or
perceive that time at the present is in fact infinite.

It is like a bloodhound's nose. It sniffs out scents very well. Most
dogs can pick up scents many times better than we humans. Just think.
If our perceptual awareness of time were to improve, and multiply in
terms of effectiveness, to the point where, as a comparison, we were
perceiving time as well as bloodhounds perceive scents, than maybe we
could perceive better that time is more than just a fleeting moment.

Many Hindu, and Buddhist monks meditate for years, and suddenly, they
have a "heightened" awareness of the present moment. What happens for
them, is for them to explain. But, I believe that they do perceive
time in the present moment more clearly than we do, in our day to day,
rushing about town, or school, or work activities.

It seems a pity that we would have to spend so much time and effort
meditating to raise our conscious level to a point where we could
perceive things with a "heightened" awareness. But, at the present,
there doesn't seem to be an alternative approach.

This is not a discourse on meditation, but meditation takes many
forms. Some people sing and dance. Do you know the Sufi's? They twirl
about where they are standing, and they never leave the space they are
in, and they go round and round in a circle, for hours on end. That is
a form of mediation though it is uncommon to see this in the Western
world, that is, the U.S., South and Central America, or maybe too,
Europe. Sufism, according to Wikipedia, is a form or branch of Islam.

Another form of meditation can be seen in the activities of the Hare
Krishna people who beat drums, and tap little finger cymbals together,
and dance, and chant phrases they have memorized. Another form of
meditation is to sit and intonate the word, Oum. Another chant to
intonate is, Om Mane Padme Um. Another one, which I'm more familiar
with is the repetition, or chanting of the phrase, Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge
Kyo. I also have a form of meditation that involves hand gestures,
called mudras or hand symbols, in the Sanskrit dialect, and in other
dialects in India I suppose. This is a form of meditation that is
related to a Chinese martial art form, called Tai Chi. I call it,
aerobic Tai Chi, as it is not an aggressive, or offensive martial art,
as I practice it, that is, it is not for hurting others, but it is
used to balance yourself.

Well, to keep this short, there are many forms or activities that we
can call meditative. In any event, we again are confronted with our
limited awareness of time, as we get back to the main topic here. So,
in short, for people who meditate, they do have experiences that open
up the present moment and when that happens, they see things
differently than when they are just going about their normal
activities.

So. Time, for some people who have experienced higher states of
awareness and consciousness, is something that has a dimension to it.
That dimension, as I stated, flows like a river from the eternal and
infinite past, to the present, to the eternal and infinite future.
While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up allowing them
to see and experience things they don't normally see and experience.

Physicists and scientists aren't too interested in higher states of
awareness, it would appear, as most of them seem not to want to talk
about it, much. They laugh it off, and say that it is a hallucination,
an illusion, or something like that. Well, I have news for them. They
are wrong. And they need to get into the track, so to speak, that is,
they need to give meditation a try, to attempt to raise their level of
awareness and consciousness.

We are thus confronted with a major problem here, now in this moment,
in that we are trying to understand something about the nature of our
universe, and maybe something about physics, if it is okay to suggest
that. Physics says, "Time is dimensionless." But I say, no, time is
not dimensionless. So I am at odds with physics. People like me, are
labeled woo woo's or, pseudo scientific nobodies. Well, if we take my
above statement about higher levels of awareness and consciousness as
true fact, it doesn't matter if I'm called a woo woo, or what ever the
establishment of physicists and scientists would like to call me. I
stick with what I know.

The question comes to mind, why is arguing this point so important? I
guess the answer to that is that I am trying to find out where modern
day science agrees with my way of seeing things, and where I clearly
disagree with current thought. If I can convince someone, even just
one person, that maybe they don't have it right, as they thought they
did, then all is worth the time and effort of writing out my mini-
statements.

If time has dimensions, as I say it does from experience, that means
that it has space, and with space, i.e., three dimensional space, or
more even, since it flows from the eternal past to the present to the
eternal future, and these must be considered as part of the
dimensionality of "time", the multi-dimensionality of "time" is
something that we can not quantify easily with current methods of
quantifying things. In any event, it is of great interest to me, that
"time" is multi-dimensional. If it is multi-dimensional, it also means
that there is a substance to it. If time has a substance to it, then
we are in the stone ages, when it comes to scientific thinking about
time. And further, unless we try to understand time, we will never be
able to quantify it, as people who experience higher levels of
awareness and higher levels of consciousness, do not bring
calculators, or computers, or whatever, with them to try and figure
out just how to quantify it as they are meditating. Maybe we can
speculate, and come up with something, but that is going to take a lot
of time to arrive at as, currently, not many people in the scientific
community are interested in meditation, and so on, as I explained
above.

Can you imagine for a moment or two, just what kind of
dimensionalities are involved in eternal time? For one thing, I think
I can say that it covers or includes all of space and everything in
it. But it covers it from the eternal past, to the present, to the
eternal future. The depth, and breadth, length, all need to be looked
at on an eternal time scale. Since no one has that eternal time scale,
it is impossible to figure out how to quantify time. Oh well. So we
have to go back to the drawing boards, and somehow, reinvent the wheel
before we can get anywhere, here, I'm afraid. Maybe someone who is a
physicist or scientist can put these factors somehow into their
equations that they formulate, and maybe then, their equations will
seem more reasonable, than they would seem otherwise.

Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
dimensionalities, it is thusly comprised of "substance". That
substance is part of the ever evolving universe that we live in.

John Ayres

"John" wrote in message
...
[snip yards of crap]

| Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
| dimensionalities, it is thusly comprised of "substance". That
| substance is part of the ever evolving universe that we live in.
|
| John Ayres

Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
one dimension, you are full of verbal diarrhea.

On Sep 30, 3:07*pm, "Androcles"
wrote:
"John" wrote in message

...
[snip yards of crap]

| Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
| dimensionalities, it is thusly comprised of "substance". That
| substance is part of the ever evolving universe that we live in.
|
| John Ayres

Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
one dimension, you are full of verbal diarrhea.

Come on now. Where are your higher levels of consciousness and
awareness? Are you going to stick to the, "Since I am a human being, I
can't help having the perceptual awareness and the level of
consciousness of a worm" predicament? Or, are you going to do
something about it, and learn to meditate? I'm afraid either you learn
how to meditate and give it your best shot, or wait several million
years for the human being's brain to evolve to the point to where it
can appreciate the multi-dimensionality of time, not to mention, as a
multi-dimensional existence, the "substance" that it is made up of.

Good Luck.

John Ayres

You are not going to get anywhere with this kind of self awareness and
positive/constructive consideration for others, at least not here in
this Semites only newsgroup where they never police their own kind, no
matters what the consequences, as well as their published history
can’t ever be revised no matters what the objective evidence has to
say.

You either accept their interpretation of everything, or face being
put on a stick by some doofus puppet government of theirs, as well as
having all of your books burned at the same time.

~ BG


On Sep 30, 2:46*pm, John wrote:
An Eastern Approach To Understanding Our Universe

The Evolution Of The Universe

The eleven factors that everything is made up of at the below sub
atomic level are,

energy
space
time
sound and vibrations
speed
force
motion
flow
continuity
matter
cohesiveness

Energy

This universe is made up of pure energy, as I've mentioned before.
That is, it evolved out of pure energy, pure space, pure time, and
pure sound, plus several other factors as noted above and that we'll
learn about as we go along. Unlocking energies from atoms is a risky
business. We need only look at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the atolls
across the Pacific to see what kind of devastation it causes.
Unlocking energies from radioactive materials in power plants that use
the heat to create steam to turn turbines to produce electricity is
also waste/pollution producing, and no one can get rid of that waste/
pollution that will be around for millions of years. We need to find
an alternative approach to unlocking and using the energies that are
all around us in our environment, to make it a safer solution to
harvesting these energies that are everywhere around us.

Space

We are surrounded by space. Every one knows that. There is little to
say about it, except that it is infinite, and boundless. If we go
beyond our universe, do you think things just stop there? Of course
they do not. Space is there, extending outwards in all directions.
People think that there was a Big Bang that set our universe off, and
that before that, there was nothing except for the makings of what
would later be called the Big Bang. Somehow, according to these people
who hold this idea, everything, including time, was condensed into a
nearly beyond infinitely small bubble. To these people, even time had
a starting point, much like they see it at a race track when the
whistle blows, or at a swim meet, or basketball game, and so on. Can
you imagine that? Time not existing before the moment of the Big Bang,
and compacting everything that exists into a bubble the size of
something far smaller than anything we can even imagine - millions
plus times smaller than a proton, is how some describe it.

And as if they were at a race track, where someone blows a horn and
the horses begin raceing, all of a sudden, everything that exists and
that was compacted into that tiny ball, suddenly sprang forth, matter
was "created". This is nothing other than the story of how the
Christian God created the universe, except they left out any mention
or reference to him/her. It's a lot of foolish nonsense if you ask me.
It only goes to prove they can't figure it out, so they'll make it up
as they go along, sort of.

Time And The Human Mind

Scientists call it a dimensionless quantity. Is it, or does it in fact
have dimensions to it? I posit that time is not dimensionless. How
does that sit with all the physicists and scientists? This seems to be
a fundamental issue here, whether or not time has a dimension. I can
only say, that based on my experience, I know quite clearly that time
flows in a dimension from the eternal infinite past, to the present,
which is also eternal in a sense, and in another sense, the present is
infinite if you are smart enough or lucky enough, or have the
perceptual awareness to figure that out, and time continues to flow
onwards to the eternal, infinite future.

This quality of being infinite seems to be something that needs a
little more explanation. Without beginning, is looking at it from the
present to the past, and without end, is looking at it from the
present to the future. Can we see in the present moment, something
infinite? Theoretically, I would have to say, yes we can. But, there
is a problem. Our senses are not accustomed to looking at the present
as anything more than a fleeting moment that flies by, as we work, or
study, or whatever. If somehow we can elevate our senses so that they
can perceive better the present moment, than maybe we could see or
perceive that time at the present is in fact infinite.

It is like a bloodhound's nose. It sniffs out scents very well. Most
dogs can pick up scents many times better than we humans. Just think.
If our perceptual awareness of time were to improve, and multiply in
terms of effectiveness, to the point where, as a comparison, we were
perceiving time as well as bloodhounds perceive scents, than maybe we
could perceive better that time is more than just a fleeting moment.

Many Hindu, and Buddhist monks meditate for years, and suddenly, they
have a "heightened" awareness of the present moment. What happens for
them, is for them to explain. But, I believe that they do perceive
time in the present moment more clearly than we do, in our day to day,
rushing about town, or school, or work activities.

It seems a pity that we would have to spend so much time and effort
meditating to raise our conscious level to a point where we could
perceive things with a "heightened" awareness. But, at the present,
there doesn't seem to be an alternative approach.

This is not a discourse on meditation, but meditation takes many
forms. Some people sing and dance. Do you know the Sufi's? They twirl
about where they are standing, and they never leave the space they are
in, and they go round and round in a circle, for hours on end. That is
a form of mediation though it is uncommon to see this in the Western
world, that is, the U.S., South and Central America, or maybe too,
Europe. Sufism, according to Wikipedia, is a form or branch of Islam.

Another form of meditation can be seen in the activities of the Hare
Krishna people who beat drums, and tap little finger cymbals together,
and dance, and chant phrases they have memorized. Another form of
meditation is to sit and intonate the word, Oum. Another chant to
intonate is, Om Mane Padme Um. Another one, which I'm more familiar
with is the repetition, or chanting of the phrase, Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge
Kyo. I also have a form of meditation that involves hand gestures,
called mudras or hand symbols, in the Sanskrit dialect, and in other
dialects in India I suppose. This is a form of meditation that is
related to a Chinese martial art form, called Tai Chi. I call it,
aerobic Tai Chi, as it is not an aggressive, or offensive martial art,
as I practice it, that is, it is not for hurting others, but it is
used to balance yourself.

Well, to keep this short, there are many forms or activities that we
can call meditative. In any event, we again are confronted with our
limited awareness of time, as we get back to the main topic here. So,
in short, for people who meditate, they do have experiences that open
up the present moment and when that happens, they see things
differently than when they are just going about their normal
activities.

So. Time, for some people who have experienced higher states of
awareness and consciousness, is something that has a dimension to it.
That dimension, as I stated, flows like a river from the eternal and
infinite past, to the present, to the eternal and infinite future.
While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up allowing them
to see and experience things they don't normally see and experience.

Physicists and scientists aren't too interested in higher states of
awareness, it would appear, as most of them seem not to want to talk
about it, much. They laugh it off, and say that it is a hallucination,
an illusion, or something like that. Well, I have news for them. They
are wrong. And they need to get into the track, so to speak, that is,
they need to give meditation a try, to attempt to raise their level of
awareness and consciousness.

We are thus confronted with a major problem here, now in this moment,
in that we are trying to understand something about the nature of our
universe, and maybe something about physics, if it is okay to suggest
that. Physics says, "Time is dimensionless." But I say, no, time is
not dimensionless. So I am at odds with physics. People like me, are
labeled woo woo's or, pseudo scientific nobodies. Well, if we take my
above statement about higher levels of awareness and consciousness as
true fact, it doesn't matter if I'm called a woo woo, or what ever the
establishment of physicists and scientists would like to call me. I
stick with what I know.

The question comes to mind, why is arguing this point so important? I
guess the answer to that is that I am trying to find out where modern
day science agrees with my way of seeing things, and where I clearly
disagree with current thought. If I can convince someone, even just
one person, that maybe they don't have it right, as they thought they
did, then all is worth the time and effort of writing out my mini-
statements.

If time has dimensions, as I say it does from experience, that means
that it has space, and with space, i.e., three dimensional space, or
more even, since it flows from the eternal past to the present to the
eternal future, and these must be considered as part of the
dimensionality of "time", the multi-dimensionality of "time" is
something that we can not quantify easily with current methods of
quantifying things. In any event, it is of great interest to me, that
"time" is multi-dimensional. If it is multi-dimensional, it also means
that there is a substance to it. If time has a substance to it, then
we are in the stone ages, when it comes to scientific thinking about
time. And further, unless we try to understand time, we will never be
able to quantify it, as people who experience higher levels of
awareness and higher levels of consciousness, do not bring
calculators, or computers, or whatever, with them to try and figure
out just how to quantify it as they are meditating. Maybe we can
speculate, and come up with something, but that is going to take a lot
of time to arrive at as, currently, not many people in the scientific
community are interested in meditation, and so on, as I explained
above.

Can you imagine for a moment or two, just what kind of
dimensionalities are involved in eternal time? For one thing, I think
I can say that it covers or includes all of space and everything in
it. But it covers it from the eternal past, to the present, to the
eternal future. The depth, and breadth, length, all need to be looked
at on an eternal time scale. Since no one has that eternal time scale,
it is impossible to figure out how to quantify time. Oh well. So we
have to go back to the drawing boards, and somehow, reinvent the wheel
before we can get anywhere, here, I'm afraid. Maybe someone who is a
physicist or scientist can put these factors somehow into their
equations that they formulate, and maybe then, their equations will
seem more reasonable, than they would seem otherwise.

Now. The most important thing to learn here is that, as time has
dimensionalities, it is thusly comprised of "substance". That
substance is part of the ever evolving universe that we live in.

John Ayres

On Oct 2, 3:34*pm, bert wrote:
...

The universe is impossible * TreBert

But we are living in it so that makes it quite possible. Do you mean,
understanding it is impossible? At this point in time, and for some
time to come, I would have to agree.

John Ayres

On Oct 2, 7:23*pm, John wrote:
On Oct 2, 3:34*pm, bert wrote:
...

The universe is impossible * TreBert

But we are living in it so that makes it quite possible. Do you mean,
understanding it is impossible? At this point in time, and for some
time to come, I would have to agree.

John Ayres

Implode or explode anything and you get multiples within multiples,
and at the very least shooting out either pole and thus going in
opposite directions. So why only one universe, especially when most
likely we can only detect and account for 0.1% of the portion we're
in.

~ BG

On Sep 30, 5:46Â*pm, John wrote:
An Eastern Approach To Understanding Our Universe

The Evolution Of The Universe

The eleven factors that everything is made up of at the below sub
atomic level are,

energy
space
time
sound and vibrations
speed
force
motion
flow
continuity
matter
cohesiveness

Energy

This universe is made up of pure energy, as I've mentioned before.
That is, it evolved out of pure energy, pure space, pure time, and
pure sound, plus several other factors as noted above and that we'll
learn about as we go along. Unlocking energies from atoms is a risky
business. We need only look at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the atolls
across the Pacific to see what kind of devastation it causes.
Unlocking energies from radioactive materials in power plants that use
the heat to create steam to turn turbines to produce electricity is
also waste/pollution producing, and no one can get rid of that waste/
pollution that will be around for millions of years. We need to find
an alternative approach to unlocking and using the energies that are
all around us in our environment, to make it a safer solution to
harvesting these energies that are everywhere around us.

Space

We are surrounded by space. Every one knows that. There is little to
say about it, except that it is infinite, and boundless. If we go
beyond our universe, do you think things just stop there? Of course
they do not. Space is there, extending outwards in all directions.
People think that there was a Big Bang that set our universe off, and
that before that, there was nothing except for the makings of what
would later be called the Big Bang. Somehow, according to these people
who hold this idea, everything, including time, was condensed into a
nearly beyond infinitely small bubble. To these people, even time had
a starting point, much like they see it at a race track when the
whistle blows, or at a swim meet, or basketball game, and so on. Can
you imagine that? Time not existing before the moment of the Big Bang,
and compacting everything that exists into a bubble the size of
something far smaller than anything we can even imagine - millions
plus times smaller than a proton, is how some describe it.

And as if they were at a race track, where someone blows a horn and
the horses begin raceing, all of a sudden, everything that exists and
that was compacted into that tiny ball, suddenly sprang forth, matter
was "created". This is nothing other than the story of how the
Christian God created the universe, except they left out any mention
or reference to him/her. It's a lot of foolish nonsense if you ask me.
It only goes to prove they can't figure it out, so they'll make it up
as they go along, sort of.

Time And The Human Mind

Scientists call it a dimensionless quantity. Is it, or does it in fact
have dimensions to it? I posit that time is not dimensionless. How
does that sit with all the physicists and scientists? This seems to be
a fundamental issue here, whether or not time has a dimension. I can
only say, that based on my experience, I know quite clearly that time
flows in a dimension from the eternal infinite past, to the present,
which is also eternal in a sense, and in another sense, the present is
infinite if you are smart enough or lucky enough, or have the
perceptual awareness to figure that out, and time continues to flow
onwards to the eternal, infinite future.

This quality of being infinite seems to be something that needs a
little more explanation. Without beginning, is looking at it from the
present to the past, and without end, is looking at it from the
present to the future. Can we see in the present moment, something
infinite? Theoretically, I would have to say, yes we can. But, there
is a problem. Our senses are not accustomed to looking at the present
as anything more than a fleeting moment that flies by, as we work, or
study, or whatever. If somehow we can elevate our senses so that they
can perceive better the present moment, than maybe we could see or
perceive that time at the present is in fact infinite.

It is like a bloodhound's nose. It sniffs out scents very well. Most
dogs can pick up scents many times better than we humans. Just think.
If our perceptual awareness of time were to improve, and multiply in
terms of effectiveness, to the point where, as a comparison, we were
perceiving time as well as bloodhounds perceive scents, than maybe we
could perceive better that time is more than just a fleeting moment.

Many Hindu, and Buddhist monks meditate for years, and suddenly, they
have a "heightened" awareness of the present moment. What happens for
them, is for them to explain. But, I believe that they do perceive
time in the present moment more clearly than we do, in our day to day,
rushing about town, or school, or work activities.

It seems a pity that we would have to spend so much time and effort
meditating to raise our conscious level to a point where we could
perceive things with a "heightened" awareness. But, at the present,
there doesn't seem to be an alternative approach.

This is not a discourse on meditation, but meditation takes many
forms. Some people sing and dance. Do you know the Sufi's? They twirl
about where they are standing, and they never leave the space they are
in, and they go round and round in a circle, for hours on end. That is
a form of mediation though it is uncommon to see this in the Western
world, that is, the U.S., South and Central America, or maybe too,
Europe. Sufism, according to Wikipedia, is a form or branch of Islam.

Another form of meditation can be seen in the activities of the Hare
Krishna people who beat drums, and tap little finger cymbals together,
and dance, and chant phrases they have memorized. Another form of
meditation is to sit and intonate the word, Oum. Another chant to
intonate is, Om Mane Padme Um. Another one, which I'm more familiar
with is the repetition, or chanting of the phrase, Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge
Kyo. I also have a form of meditation that involves hand gestures,
called mudras or hand symbols, in the Sanskrit dialect, and in other
dialects in India I suppose. This is a form of meditation that is
related to a Chinese martial art form, called Tai Chi. I call it,
aerobic Tai Chi, as it is not an aggressive, or offensive martial art,
as I practice it, that is, it is not for hurting others, but it is
used to balance yourself.

Well, to keep this short, there are many forms or activities that we
can call meditative. In any event, we again are confronted with our
limited awareness of time, as we get back to the main topic here. So,
in short, for people who meditate, they do have experiences that open
up the present moment and when that happens, they see things
differently than when they are just going about their normal
activities.

So. Time, for some people who have experienced higher states of
awareness and consciousness, is something that has a dimension to it.
That dimension, as I stated, flows like a river from the eternal and
infinite past, to the present, to the eternal and infinite future.
While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up allowing them
to see and experience things they don't normally see and experience.

Physicists and scientists aren't too interested in higher states of
awareness, it would appear, as most of them seem not to want to talk
about it, much. They laugh it off, and say that it is a hallucination,
an illusion, or something like that. Well, I have news for them. They
are wrong. And they need to get into the track, so to speak, that is,
they need to give meditation a try, to attempt to raise their level of
awareness and consciousness.

We are thus confronted with a major problem here, now in this moment,
in that we are trying to understand something about the nature of our
universe, and maybe something about physics, if it is okay to suggest
that. Physics says, "Time is dimensionless." But I say, no, time is
not dimensionless. So I am at odds with physics. People like me, are
labeled woo woo's or, pseudo scientific nobodies. Well, if we take my
above statement about higher levels of awareness and consciousness as
true fact, it doesn't matter if I'm called a woo woo, or what ever the
establishment of physicists and scientists would like to call me. I
stick with what I know.

The question comes to mind, why is arguing this point so important? I
guess the answer to that is that I am trying to find out where modern
day science agrees with my way of seeing things, and where I clearly
disagree with current thought. If I can convince someone, even just
one person, that maybe they don't have it right, as they thought they
did, then all is worth the time and effort of writing out my mini-
statements.

If time has dimensions, as I say it does from experience, that means
that it has space, and with space, i.e., three dimensional space, or
more even, since it flows from the eternal past to the present to the
eternal future, and these must be considered as part of the
dimensionality of "time", the multi-dimensionality of "time" is
something that we can not quantify easily with current methods of
quantifying things. In any event, it is of great interest to me, that
"time" is multi-dimensional. If it is multi-dimensional, it also means
that there is a substance to it. If time has a substance to it, then
we are in the stone ages, when it comes to scientific thinking about
time. And further, unless we try to understand time, we will never be
able to quantify it, as people who experience higher levels of
awareness and higher levels of consciousness, do not bring
calculators, or computers, or whatever, with them to try and figure
out just how to quantify it as they are meditating. Maybe we can
speculate, and come up with something, but that is going to take a lot
of time to arrive at as, currently, not many people in the scientific
community are interested in meditation, and so on, as I explained
above.

Can you imagine for a moment or two, just what kind of
dimensionalities are involved ...

read more »

Well John you stirred things up a bit. Don’t mind Androcles and his
plonk. He plonks and ends with that pat statement every time he either
loses an argument or does not have sufficient background, knowledge or
experience to discuss the topic. He is a naysayer without teeth. No
one listens to him.

In the late ’60 and early ‘70’s I lived on a Sufi commune in New York
for four years. Meditated, chanted, Tai Chi, whirled like a Dervish.
One of our members was a student of psychology and was doing lab work
at SUNY in Port Jefferson experimenting with the brain using monkeys
as subjects. They had implants in their brains and were hooked up to
devices that recorded their Alpha and Beta waves under certain test
conditions. We as a group experimented with the device to measure our
wave patterns and compare the waking and meditative states. We were
all able to go from Alpha (waking) to Beta (meditative) state applying
various meditative techniques. Therefore the meditative state is
measurable and this has been known to science for decades. However
your statement “While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up
allowing them 
to see and experience things they don't normally see
and experience.” Is a bit off the mark. The true meditative
experience is “no mind”. It is the mind that limits our perception.
Only upon emptying it is there the experience of the infinite.

Of all the meditative techniques I have used, I found music to be the
catalyst where by I feel unconfined by the physical limitations of the
brain. Any musician will tell you you have to feel the music, you
cannot think it. It is without mind. The more I think of the piece I
am playing the more I stink up the place. Stopping the mind is the
way to achieve that level of ecstasy that escapes us on a day-to-day
basis based on our over stimulated life styles. In order to realize
this higher state one must take a very Zen approach.

You mentioned that other disciplines use meditation as a means for
higher consciencnessous. I have meditated in Temples with all of
them, Sufi, Hindu, and Buddhist masters and found insight into their
various techniques. I also came to realize that those in monasteries
where not there just to raise their consciousness through meditation
but were there primarily to remove themselves from the Karmic wheel.
This was expressed be me by various Masters. Removing yourself from
the realm of worldly experience increases your chances of reaching
that elevated state called Nirvana while limiting your Karmic debt.
But that is not the path for everyone. All of us have a Karmic debt
to pay. Why? Because everything is recorded. Everything is the
result of cause and effect. In other words you can meditate all you
want but the debt has to be paid good, bad or otherwise. Nothing
escapes the law of cause and effect.

Out of all the Masters I encountered during my Sufi days it was the
psychic that gave me the greatest insight in this dimension of time.
Now I know this rubs a lot of the naysayers the wrong way but I have
had undeniable experiences with this psychic and hold what he says to
be as close to the truth as one can get.

Time and the Human Mind – Every thing is recorded in the aether. Just
like radio and TV signals your thought, words and deeds are recorded.
Because we are bound by the physics, time appears as an illusion. In
actuality past, present and future all exist at the same time and is
accessible to the “tuned in” individual. Psychics are an example of
those who are tuned into this higher consciousness that permits one to
see time past, present and future all at once. It is as if you or I
are watching TV and all we can get is one channel. The psychic has
cable. The psychic’s ability is beyond the mind and has to do with his
or her spiritual development. It is not a gift. It is something he or
she has earned. Getting back to the point, the future however is
malleable and is not written in stone but probable, hence the dilemma
of the psychic to discern your most probable future. This also
suggests the multi-dimensional aspect of time. If these probable
futures exist are they also fulfilled on another level. Parallel
universes come to mind.

One thing is for sure. The answer to the riddle of the Universe will
not be accomplished through the mind, which is limited by its
physiology, and it being anchored to time and space. To solve this
riddle is to go beyond the mind. Some get rare glimpses during the
meditative state or through the use of certain drugs but these are
fleeting moments.

All my studies have led me to the Gurdjieffian conclusion that we are
here to do the work on self that has been neglected as well as to pay
the karmic debt accrued from life to life i.e. cause and effect.
There is no escaping it.

Oh yeah naysayer, we re-incarnate in order to get it right and move
on…

RT

On Sep 30, 5:46Â*pm, John wrote:
An Eastern Approach To Understanding Our Universe

The Evolution Of The Universe

The eleven factors that everything is made up of at the below sub
atomic level are,

energy
space
time
sound and vibrations
speed
force
motion
flow
continuity
matter
cohesiveness

Energy

This universe is made up of pure energy, as I've mentioned before.
That is, it evolved out of pure energy, pure space, pure time, and
pure sound, plus several other factors as noted above and that we'll
learn about as we go along. Unlocking energies from atoms is a risky
business. We need only look at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the atolls
across the Pacific to see what kind of devastation it causes.
Unlocking energies from radioactive materials in power plants that use
the heat to create steam to turn turbines to produce electricity is
also waste/pollution producing, and no one can get rid of that waste/
pollution that will be around for millions of years. We need to find
an alternative approach to unlocking and using the energies that are
all around us in our environment, to make it a safer solution to
harvesting these energies that are everywhere around us.

Space

We are surrounded by space. Every one knows that. There is little to
say about it, except that it is infinite, and boundless. If we go
beyond our universe, do you think things just stop there? Of course
they do not. Space is there, extending outwards in all directions.
People think that there was a Big Bang that set our universe off, and
that before that, there was nothing except for the makings of what
would later be called the Big Bang. Somehow, according to these people
who hold this idea, everything, including time, was condensed into a
nearly beyond infinitely small bubble. To these people, even time had
a starting point, much like they see it at a race track when the
whistle blows, or at a swim meet, or basketball game, and so on. Can
you imagine that? Time not existing before the moment of the Big Bang,
and compacting everything that exists into a bubble the size of
something far smaller than anything we can even imagine - millions
plus times smaller than a proton, is how some describe it.

And as if they were at a race track, where someone blows a horn and
the horses begin raceing, all of a sudden, everything that exists and
that was compacted into that tiny ball, suddenly sprang forth, matter
was "created". This is nothing other than the story of how the
Christian God created the universe, except they left out any mention
or reference to him/her. It's a lot of foolish nonsense if you ask me.
It only goes to prove they can't figure it out, so they'll make it up
as they go along, sort of.

Time And The Human Mind

Scientists call it a dimensionless quantity. Is it, or does it in fact
have dimensions to it? I posit that time is not dimensionless. How
does that sit with all the physicists and scientists? This seems to be
a fundamental issue here, whether or not time has a dimension. I can
only say, that based on my experience, I know quite clearly that time
flows in a dimension from the eternal infinite past, to the present,
which is also eternal in a sense, and in another sense, the present is
infinite if you are smart enough or lucky enough, or have the
perceptual awareness to figure that out, and time continues to flow
onwards to the eternal, infinite future.

This quality of being infinite seems to be something that needs a
little more explanation. Without beginning, is looking at it from the
present to the past, and without end, is looking at it from the
present to the future. Can we see in the present moment, something
infinite? Theoretically, I would have to say, yes we can. But, there
is a problem. Our senses are not accustomed to looking at the present
as anything more than a fleeting moment that flies by, as we work, or
study, or whatever. If somehow we can elevate our senses so that they
can perceive better the present moment, than maybe we could see or
perceive that time at the present is in fact infinite.

It is like a bloodhound's nose. It sniffs out scents very well. Most
dogs can pick up scents many times better than we humans. Just think.
If our perceptual awareness of time were to improve, and multiply in
terms of effectiveness, to the point where, as a comparison, we were
perceiving time as well as bloodhounds perceive scents, than maybe we
could perceive better that time is more than just a fleeting moment.

Many Hindu, and Buddhist monks meditate for years, and suddenly, they
have a "heightened" awareness of the present moment. What happens for
them, is for them to explain. But, I believe that they do perceive
time in the present moment more clearly than we do, in our day to day,
rushing about town, or school, or work activities.

It seems a pity that we would have to spend so much time and effort
meditating to raise our conscious level to a point where we could
perceive things with a "heightened" awareness. But, at the present,
there doesn't seem to be an alternative approach.

This is not a discourse on meditation, but meditation takes many
forms. Some people sing and dance. Do you know the Sufi's? They twirl
about where they are standing, and they never leave the space they are
in, and they go round and round in a circle, for hours on end. That is
a form of mediation though it is uncommon to see this in the Western
world, that is, the U.S., South and Central America, or maybe too,
Europe. Sufism, according to Wikipedia, is a form or branch of Islam.

Another form of meditation can be seen in the activities of the Hare
Krishna people who beat drums, and tap little finger cymbals together,
and dance, and chant phrases they have memorized. Another form of
meditation is to sit and intonate the word, Oum. Another chant to
intonate is, Om Mane Padme Um. Another one, which I'm more familiar
with is the repetition, or chanting of the phrase, Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge
Kyo. I also have a form of meditation that involves hand gestures,
called mudras or hand symbols, in the Sanskrit dialect, and in other
dialects in India I suppose. This is a form of meditation that is
related to a Chinese martial art form, called Tai Chi. I call it,
aerobic Tai Chi, as it is not an aggressive, or offensive martial art,
as I practice it, that is, it is not for hurting others, but it is
used to balance yourself.

Well, to keep this short, there are many forms or activities that we
can call meditative. In any event, we again are confronted with our
limited awareness of time, as we get back to the main topic here. So,
in short, for people who meditate, they do have experiences that open
up the present moment and when that happens, they see things
differently than when they are just going about their normal
activities.

So. Time, for some people who have experienced higher states of
awareness and consciousness, is something that has a dimension to it.
That dimension, as I stated, flows like a river from the eternal and
infinite past, to the present, to the eternal and infinite future.
While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up allowing them
to see and experience things they don't normally see and experience.

Physicists and scientists aren't too interested in higher states of
awareness, it would appear, as most of them seem not to want to talk
about it, much. They laugh it off, and say that it is a hallucination,
an illusion, or something like that. Well, I have news for them. They
are wrong. And they need to get into the track, so to speak, that is,
they need to give meditation a try, to attempt to raise their level of
awareness and consciousness.

We are thus confronted with a major problem here, now in this moment,
in that we are trying to understand something about the nature of our
universe, and maybe something about physics, if it is okay to suggest
that. Physics says, "Time is dimensionless." But I say, no, time is
not dimensionless. So I am at odds with physics. People like me, are
labeled woo woo's or, pseudo scientific nobodies. Well, if we take my
above statement about higher levels of awareness and consciousness as
true fact, it doesn't matter if I'm called a woo woo, or what ever the
establishment of physicists and scientists would like to call me. I
stick with what I know.

The question comes to mind, why is arguing this point so important? I
guess the answer to that is that I am trying to find out where modern
day science agrees with my way of seeing things, and where I clearly
disagree with current thought. If I can convince someone, even just
one person, that maybe they don't have it right, as they thought they
did, then all is worth the time and effort of writing out my mini-
statements.

If time has dimensions, as I say it does from experience, that means
that it has space, and with space, i.e., three dimensional space, or
more even, since it flows from the eternal past to the present to the
eternal future, and these must be considered as part of the
dimensionality of "time", the multi-dimensionality of "time" is
something that we can not quantify easily with current methods of
quantifying things. In any event, it is of great interest to me, that
"time" is multi-dimensional. If it is multi-dimensional, it also means
that there is a substance to it. If time has a substance to it, then
we are in the stone ages, when it comes to scientific thinking about
time. And further, unless we try to understand time, we will never be
able to quantify it, as people who experience higher levels of
awareness and higher levels of consciousness, do not bring
calculators, or computers, or whatever, with them to try and figure
out just how to quantify it as they are meditating. Maybe we can
speculate, and come up with something, but that is going to take a lot
of time to arrive at as, currently, not many people in the scientific
community are interested in meditation, and so on, as I explained
above.

Can you imagine for a moment or two, just what kind of
dimensionalities are involved ...

read more »

John I tried to respond to this thread days ago but it got kicked back
repeatedly. Anyone else having problems posting to a thread?



Well John you stirred things up a bit. Don’t mind Androcles and his
plonk. He plonks and ends with that pat statement every time he either
loses an argument or does not have sufficient background, knowledge or
experience to discuss the topic. He is a naysayer without teeth. No
one listens to him.

In the late ’60 and early ‘70’s I lived on a Sufi commune in New York
for four years. Meditated, chanted, Tai Chi, whirled like a Dervish.
One of our members was a student of psychology and was doing lab work
at SUNY in Port Jefferson experimenting with the brain using monkeys
as subjects. They had implants in their brains and were hooked up to
devices that recorded their Alpha and Beta waves under certain test
conditions. We as a group experimented with the device to measure our
wave patterns and compare the waking and meditative states. We were
all able to go from Alpha (waking) to Beta (meditative) state applying
various meditative techniques. Therefore the meditative state is
measurable and this has been known to science for decades. However
your statement “While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up
allowing them 
to see and experience things they don't normally see
and experience.” Is a bit off the mark. The true meditative
experience is “no mind”. It is the mind that limits our perception.
Only upon emptying it is there the experience of the infinite.

Of all the meditative techniques I have used, I found music to be the
catalyst where by I feel unconfined by the physical limitations of the
brain. Any musician will tell you you have to feel the music, you
cannot think it. It is without mind. The more I think of the piece I
am playing the more I stink up the place. Stopping the mind is the
way to achieve that level of ecstasy that escapes us on a day-to-day
basis based on our over stimulated life styles. In order to realize
this higher state one must take a very Zen approach.

You mentioned that other disciplines use meditation as a means for
higher consciencnessous. I have meditated in Temples with all of
them, Sufi, Hindu, and Buddhist masters and found insight into their
various techniques. I also came to realize that those in monasteries
where not there just to raise their consciousness through meditation
but were there primarily to remove themselves from the Karmic wheel.
This was expressed be me by various Masters. Removing yourself from
the realm of worldly experience increases your chances of reaching
that elevated state called Nirvana while limiting your Karmic debt.
But that is not the path for everyone. All of us have a Karmic debt
to pay. Why? Because everything is recorded. Everything is the
result of cause and effect. In other words you can meditate all you
want but the debt has to be paid good, bad or otherwise. Nothing
escapes the law of cause and effect.

Out of all the Masters I encountered during my Sufi days it was the
psychic that gave me the greatest insight in this dimension of time.
Now I know this rubs a lot of the naysayers the wrong way but I have
had undeniable experiences with this psychic and hold what he says to
be as close to the truth as one can get.

Time and the Human Mind – Every thing is recorded in the aether. Just
like radio and TV signals your thought, words and deeds are recorded.
Because we are bound by the physics, time appears as an illusion. In
actuality past, present and future all exist at the same time and is
accessible to the “tuned in” individual. Psychics are an example of
those who are tuned into this higher consciousness that permits one to
see time past, present and future all at once. It is as if you or I
are watching TV and all we can get is one channel. The psychic has
cable. The psychic’s ability is beyond the mind and has to do with his
or her spiritual development. It is not a gift. It is something he or
she has earned. Getting back to the point, the future however is
malleable and is not written in stone but probable, hence the dilemma
of the psychic to discern your most probable future. This also
suggests the multi-dimensional aspect of time. If these probable
futures exist are they also fulfilled on another level. Parallel
universes come to mind.

One thing is for sure. The answer to the riddle of the Universe will
not be accomplished through the mind, which is limited by its
physiology, and it being anchored to time and space. To solve this
riddle is to go beyond the mind. Some get rare glimpses during the
meditative state or through the use of certain drugs but these are
fleeting moments.

All my studies have led me to the Gurdjieffian conclusion that we are
here to do the work on self that has been neglected as well as to pay
the karmic debt accrued from life to life i.e. cause and effect.
There is no escaping it.

Oh yeah naysayer, we re-incarnate in order to get it right and move
on…

RT

On Oct 9, 6:39Â*am, vtcapo wrote:
John I tried to respond to this thread days ago but it got kicked back
repeatedly. Anyone else having problems posting to a thread?

Well John you stirred things up a bit. Â*Don’t mind Androcles and his
plonk. He plonks and ends with that pat statement every time he either
loses an argument or does not have sufficient background, knowledge or
experience to discuss the topic. He is a naysayer without teeth. No
one listens to him.

In the late ’60 and early ‘70’s I lived on a Sufi commune in New York
for four years. Meditated, chanted, Tai Chi, whirled like a Dervish.
One of our members was a student of psychology and was doing lab work
at SUNY in Port Jefferson experimenting with the brain using monkeys
as subjects. Â*They had implants in their brains and were hooked up to
devices that recorded their Alpha and Beta waves under certain test
conditions. We as a group experimented with the device to measure our
wave patterns and compare the waking and meditative states. We were
all able to go from Alpha (waking) to Beta (meditative) state applying
various meditative techniques. Â*Therefore the meditative state is
measurable and this has been known to science for decades. However
your statement “While meditating, their brain takes over, and opens up
allowing them 
to see and experience things they don't normally see
and experience.” Is a bit off the mark. Â*The true meditative
experience is “no mind”. Â*It is the mind that limits our perception.
Only upon emptying it is there the experience of the infinite.

Of all the meditative techniques I have used, I found music to be the
catalyst where by I feel unconfined by the physical limitations of the
brain. Any musician will tell you you have to feel the music, you
cannot think it. Â*It is without mind. Â*The more I think of the piece I
am playing the more I stink up the place. Stopping Â* the mind is the
way to achieve that level of ecstasy that escapes us on a day-to-day
basis based on our over stimulated life styles. Â*In order to realize
this higher state one must take a very Zen approach.

You mentioned that other disciplines use meditation as a means for
higher consciencnessous. Â*I have meditated in Temples with all of
them, Sufi, Hindu, and Buddhist masters and found insight into their
various techniques. I also came to realize that those in monasteries
where not there just to raise their consciousness through meditation
but were there primarily to remove themselves from the Karmic wheel.
This was expressed be me by various Masters. Removing yourself from
the realm of worldly experience increases your chances of reaching
that elevated state called Nirvana while limiting your Karmic debt.
But that is not the path for everyone. Â*All of us have a Karmic debt
to pay. Â*Why? Â*Because everything is recorded. Everything is the
result of cause and effect. Â*In other words you can meditate all you
want but the debt has to be paid good, bad or otherwise. Nothing
escapes the law of cause and effect.

Out of all the Masters I encountered during my Sufi days it was the
psychic that gave me the greatest insight in this dimension of time.
Now I know this rubs a lot of the naysayers the wrong way but I have
had undeniable experiences with this psychic and hold what he says to
be as close to the truth as one can get.

Time and the Human Mind – Every thing is recorded in the aether. Â*Just
like radio and TV signals your thought, words and deeds are recorded.
Because we are bound by the physics, time appears as an illusion. In
actuality past, present and future all exist at the same time and is
accessible to the “tuned in” individual. Psychics are an example of
those who are tuned into this higher consciousness that permits one to
see time past, present and future all at once. Â*It is as if you or I
are watching TV and all we can get is one channel. Â*The psychic has
cable. The psychic’s ability is beyond the mind and has to do with his
or her spiritual development. Â*It is not a gift. It is something he or
she has earned. Getting back to the point, the future however is
malleable and is not written in stone but probable, hence the dilemma
of the psychic to discern your most probable future. This also
suggests the multi-dimensional aspect of time. If these probable
futures exist are they also fulfilled on another level. Parallel
universes come to mind.

One thing is for sure. The answer to the riddle of the Universe will
not be accomplished through the mind, which is limited by its
physiology, and it being anchored to time and space. To solve this
riddle is to go beyond the mind. Â*Some get rare glimpses during the
meditative state or through the use of certain drugs but these are
fleeting moments.

All my studies have led me to the Gurdjieffian conclusion that we are
here to do the work on self that has been neglected as well as to pay
the karmic debt accrued from life to life i.e. cause and effect.
There is no escaping it.

Oh yeah naysayer, we re-incarnate in order to get it right and move
on…

RT

It's contributions from the likes of John and yourself that likely
caused the Google Groups version of Usenet/newsgroups to become
dysfunctional to begin with. However, re-incarnated seems unnecessary
in a universe where intelligent design or trial and error redesign
gets as many do-overs as it likes.

How would you redesign the human species for this or some other world?

On Oct 9, 1:16*pm, vtcapo wrote:
On Oct 9, 3:07*pm, Brad Guth wrote:

I didn't say that reincarnation wasn't doable. *It just seems as
though intelligent design/redesign has come a long ways. *Transferring
thoughts shouldn't be all that far behind.

*~ BG

Please explain.......

RT

Wouldn't you like having a terabyte memory chip and its PC Linux OS
implanted as your extended archive, so that you could save and recall
everything you ever experienced, and then some? (of course you could
also erase whatever)

We've engineered better plants and animals, as well as having saved a
few endangered species, that without our assistance would have become
extinct like all the thousands of others we either couldn't save or
had no intentions of saving. Every implanted person could include a
lifetime plutonium battery as part of their package deal, as well as
eventually a third eye to go along with the bionic 3rd ear.

This is not to say that mistakes are unlikely, but it's a step in the
right direction.

~ BG