Touchy subjects at public events

On 8 Sep 2003 02:51:24 -0700, (Doogie Hoosier)
wrote:

I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy
through my binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering
their eyes has been traveling through space for two million years.

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public. He said he'd look it up
and give me a call. I wonder how long he looked for it.

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

In a similar vein, I was getting my eyes tested about four years ago.
The eye doc and I were chatting, and he asked if there were any
special requirements that needed to be accounted for in the
prescription, coatings i.e. do I spend a lot of time in front of a
computer etc. I mentioned astronomy and he said he was fascinated by
what's up there to. Great. He asked me what I get out of the hobby,
and one thing I mentioned was how it makes you think: The Andromeda
Galaxy - the light you see left the galaxy at about the same time our
distant ancestors left the trees. He flat-out said that he did not
believe that. Everything was created 6000 years ago. Man and dinosaur
existed together. Evolution is false. He wasn't preachy or trying to
convert me, but he was firm in his convictions.

Hooo-boy. I haven't gone back.

Cheers,

- Craig

Doogie Hoosier:
...It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years..."

I don't argue with people like that. I tell them that they are entitled
to believe what they want to believe, but that a discussion of religion
is outside the scope of my presentation. If pressed, I may stand firm
on that, or I may add that *my* religion teaches that God did not tell
us directly when He created the Universe or the Earth. Instead, He
planted an enormous amount of evidence (some of it conflicting) that
would let us figure it out for ourselves if we were clever enough. So,
if God is not a liar -- if He didn't plant false evidence -- the
Universe is probably about 14 billion years old, and the Earth came
along about 4.5 billion years ago.

...Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

This incident does not mean that you shouldn't broach this subject in
public. You should tell the truth as you understand it, and for the
sake of politeness, avoid arguing by using the "outside the scope of my
presentation" reply. And, if the occasion arises, you should definitely
mention Galileo's conflict with the Church over Jupiter's moons.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

The Andromeda
Galaxy - the light you see left the galaxy at about the same time our
distant ancestors left the trees. He flat-out said that he did not
believe that. Everything was created 6000 years ago. Man and dinosaur
existed together.

As I understand it, at some point someone came up with the idea that "When God
created the Earth, he created it's history too."

Thus I imagine the idea here would be that "She" or "He" also created the light
coming from Andromeda as well as Andromeda itself at the same time.

You could have enlighted the fellow as to his own Dogma.

Hooo-boy. I haven't gone back.

Probably ran out of there pretty fast too...

jon

"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message m...
It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."
I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public.

A big public mistake. Science should not surrender its
legitimate enterprise of trying to understand how the universe
works to encroachment by religious beliefs.

BTW: He never got back to you because you forgot
to tell him which version of The Bible to check.G

--
Hilton Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lon -71° 04' 35.3"
Lat +42° 11' 06.7"
---------------------------------------------------------------
CCD Astroimaging
http://home.earthlink.net/~hiltoneva...troimaging.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
ChemPen Chemical Structure Software
http://www.chempensoftware.com

Let me give you a scary thought: Without the votes of such religious
people, Bush would not be in the White House and the Republicans would not
control Congress.

Bill G.


"Craig Levine" wrote in message
...
On 8 Sep 2003 02:51:24 -0700, (Doogie Hoosier)
wrote:

I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy
through my binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering
their eyes has been traveling through space for two million years.

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public. He said he'd look it up
and give me a call. I wonder how long he looked for it.

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

In a similar vein, I was getting my eyes tested about four years ago.
The eye doc and I were chatting, and he asked if there were any
special requirements that needed to be accounted for in the
prescription, coatings i.e. do I spend a lot of time in front of a
computer etc. I mentioned astronomy and he said he was fascinated by
what's up there to. Great. He asked me what I get out of the hobby,
and one thing I mentioned was how it makes you think: The Andromeda
Galaxy - the light you see left the galaxy at about the same time our
distant ancestors left the trees. He flat-out said that he did not
believe that. Everything was created 6000 years ago. Man and dinosaur
existed together. Evolution is false. He wasn't preachy or trying to
convert me, but he was firm in his convictions.

Hooo-boy. I haven't gone back.

Cheers,

- Craig

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings?

I've hosted several church and homeschool groups at our observatory, and not
*one* of them brought up a creationist argument with me at any point. They
seemed much more interested in seeing what they could see and not discussing
the origins thereof. I'll tell you what, though, during a couple of our
public events, I've had some people try and convince me of their UFO
experiences, and I couldn't wait to change the subject. I'm not talking
people who asked questions such as, "do you think it's *possible* there's
life out there?", I'm talking about people who were relating their personal
experiences with UFO sightings. Who knows what it was they actually thought
they saw; they weren't open to entertaining possibilities other than
visitors from an extrasolar civilization.

Jackie

(Doogie Hoosier) wrote in message om...
I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public.

I sure as hell wouldn't offer to make a retraction just because some
stupid, error-plagued 2000 year old book said something was so
(assuming the bible was actually written that long ago, and not by
Shakespeare five hundred years ago).

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

I suspect most people who show up to look through telescopes are
actually interested in science, and are not conservative idiots like
that one you mentioned who thought the universe was 6000 years old. No
need to censor science in this situation.

Craig Levine wrote:

Hi Jon,

I make it a point to never discuss religion or politics with dentists
or eye doctors.

I'm not that selective. But I do not let my opthamologist work on my
teeth nor any of my four dentists work on my eyes g Nor do I regard
any of them as experts on philosophy or theology.

Phil

While there's no point in arguing with a creationist, we don't have to
feel like we have to retreat either. It can be rather uncomfortable
being bombarded with smug self-righteousness, but bad science is bad
religion. The truth is what matters.
Marty

"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
m...
I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy
through my binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering
their eyes has been traveling through space for two million years.

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

"Well, then, He must have created it in transit, because it *looks* as if
it's been traveling 2 million years."

There are people who believe that. But I agree with you, the Bible does not
give the age of the earth, or of the universe.