Vixen vs. Tak

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:29:23 GMT, "Mick" wrote:

Does the Vixen ED series compare to the Tak's?

I briefly owned a Vixen 4" achromat, that is, with a
common crown/flint doublet, however I quickly arrived
at the conclusion that I had outgrown achromats with
their seemingly patented chromatic aberration, so I sent
it back and got a Takahashi FS-102 in its stead.

The FS-102 in combination with University Optics'
orthoscopics is far superior to the Vixen achromat
combined with Vixen's orthoscopics(I did not have
the UO's at the time), however that is not to say
that the Vixen achromat did not give good views,
for it did, and very good for an achromat.

The Vixen ED series should fall halfway between
the two, and perhaps leaning more towards the
Takahashi in overall quality, but only slightly
perhaps.

The Vixen ED 102S O.T.A. currently sells for
$1525, while the Takahashi FS-102 O.T.A. is ON
SALE for $1895, a mere $370 difference in price...

....the choice is obvious, that is, among refractors.

Alan

Alan,
The Vixen ED102S on a Vixen mount is $2200 and includes the ota,
mount, finder, tray, diagonal, rings and a 20mm LV ep. By the time
you equip the Tak ota in similar fashion, the difference in $ widens.
Thats why I purchased the Vixen ED, IMHO it is a great buy and you get
excellent optics to boot. Just my 2 cents worth...
Clear Skies,
David

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:29:23 GMT, "Mick" wrote:

Does the Vixen ED series compare to the Tak's?

I briefly owned a Vixen 4" achromat, that is, with a
common crown/flint doublet, however I quickly arrived
at the conclusion that I had outgrown achromats with
their seemingly patented chromatic aberration, so I sent
it back and got a Takahashi FS-102 in its stead.

The FS-102 in combination with University Optics'
orthoscopics is far superior to the Vixen achromat
combined with Vixen's orthoscopics(I did not have
the UO's at the time), however that is not to say
that the Vixen achromat did not give good views,
for it did, and very good for an achromat.

The Vixen ED series should fall halfway between
the two, and perhaps leaning more towards the
Takahashi in overall quality, but only slightly
perhaps.

The Vixen ED 102S O.T.A. currently sells for
$1525, while the Takahashi FS-102 O.T.A. is ON
SALE for $1895, a mere $370 difference in price...

...the choice is obvious, that is, among refractors.

Alan

Alan,
The Vixen ED102S on a Vixen mount is $2200 and includes the ota,
mount, finder, tray, diagonal, rings and a 20mm LV ep. By the time
you equip the Tak ota in similar fashion, the difference in $ widens.
Thats why I purchased the Vixen ED, IMHO it is a great buy and you get
excellent optics to boot. Just my 2 cents worth...
Clear Skies,
David

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:29:23 GMT, "Mick" wrote:

Does the Vixen ED series compare to the Tak's?

I briefly owned a Vixen 4" achromat, that is, with a
common crown/flint doublet, however I quickly arrived
at the conclusion that I had outgrown achromats with
their seemingly patented chromatic aberration, so I sent
it back and got a Takahashi FS-102 in its stead.

The FS-102 in combination with University Optics'
orthoscopics is far superior to the Vixen achromat
combined with Vixen's orthoscopics(I did not have
the UO's at the time), however that is not to say
that the Vixen achromat did not give good views,
for it did, and very good for an achromat.

The Vixen ED series should fall halfway between
the two, and perhaps leaning more towards the
Takahashi in overall quality, but only slightly
perhaps.

The Vixen ED 102S O.T.A. currently sells for
$1525, while the Takahashi FS-102 O.T.A. is ON
SALE for $1895, a mere $370 difference in price...

...the choice is obvious, that is, among refractors.

Alan

On 30 Aug 2003 13:46:57 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan,
The Vixen ED102S on a Vixen mount is $2200 and includes the ota,
mount, finder, tray, diagonal, rings and a 20mm LV ep. By the time
you equip the Tak ota in similar fashion, the difference in $ widens.

Yes, and to about $500 at most, but package deals can be limiting.
For instance, I'm having Parks custom-manufacture an 8" f/5 classic
Newtonian for me, and I will mount it on my GP-DX, rather than on the
GP standard that I had briefly along with the Vixen achromat, as I don't
believe the standard GP could handle the Parks. As it is, I'm going to
be pushing the GP-DX with it a bit, perhaps. Orion and others are
placing 8" f/5 O.T.A.'s on, at times, ridiculously-unsubstantial
equatorial mountings. I will have the advantage of not only a
vastly-superior mount, but of a fiberglass tube as well.

Time will tell, as I have promised to report the results once I receive
the Parks.

I didn't like the Vixen lanthanum ocular that came with the Vixen
achromat/GP mount...too much glass. It would be best suited for a
much larger primary, as its image-softening and contrast-robbing
effects might be reduced to a less noticeable degree. I have
two Vixen orthoscopics, with my University Optics' being noticeably
better, however I don't think that that would necessarily apply
to the quality of their refractors' objectives, as I did think their
achromat to be very good, but again, for an achromat.

I almost bought a Vixen ED 102S setup, just as you did, but I
got to looking around, especially at the Vixen FL 102S with its ghastly
$500 price increase over the Takahashi FS-102...

....it didn't take me long to decide: "Hey, I can get a Takahashi fluorite
for PEANUTS, comparatively!"

Thats why I purchased the Vixen ED, IMHO it is a great buy and you get
excellent optics to boot.

I think that had I purchased the Vixen ED 102S after having
returned the achromat that I would've come to the same conclusion,
too...

....but with that near-purchase of a Takahashi FS-102 having forever
haunted me.

Just my 2 cents worth...
Clear Skies,
David

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:29:23 GMT, "Mick" wrote:

Does the Vixen ED series compare to the Tak's?

I briefly owned a Vixen 4" achromat, that is, with a
common crown/flint doublet, however I quickly arrived
at the conclusion that I had outgrown achromats with
their seemingly patented chromatic aberration, so I sent
it back and got a Takahashi FS-102 in its stead.

The FS-102 in combination with University Optics'
orthoscopics is far superior to the Vixen achromat
combined with Vixen's orthoscopics(I did not have
the UO's at the time), however that is not to say
that the Vixen achromat did not give good views,
for it did, and very good for an achromat.

The Vixen ED series should fall halfway between
the two, and perhaps leaning more towards the
Takahashi in overall quality, but only slightly
perhaps.

The Vixen ED 102S O.T.A. currently sells for
$1525, while the Takahashi FS-102 O.T.A. is ON
SALE for $1895, a mere $370 difference in price...

...the choice is obvious, that is, among refractors.

Alan

On 30 Aug 2003 13:46:57 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan,
The Vixen ED102S on a Vixen mount is $2200 and includes the ota,
mount, finder, tray, diagonal, rings and a 20mm LV ep. By the time
you equip the Tak ota in similar fashion, the difference in $ widens.

Yes, and to about $500 at most, but package deals can be limiting.
For instance, I'm having Parks custom-manufacture an 8" f/5 classic
Newtonian for me, and I will mount it on my GP-DX, rather than on the
GP standard that I had briefly along with the Vixen achromat, as I don't
believe the standard GP could handle the Parks. As it is, I'm going to
be pushing the GP-DX with it a bit, perhaps. Orion and others are
placing 8" f/5 O.T.A.'s on, at times, ridiculously-unsubstantial
equatorial mountings. I will have the advantage of not only a
vastly-superior mount, but of a fiberglass tube as well.

Time will tell, as I have promised to report the results once I receive
the Parks.

I didn't like the Vixen lanthanum ocular that came with the Vixen
achromat/GP mount...too much glass. It would be best suited for a
much larger primary, as its image-softening and contrast-robbing
effects might be reduced to a less noticeable degree. I have
two Vixen orthoscopics, with my University Optics' being noticeably
better, however I don't think that that would necessarily apply
to the quality of their refractors' objectives, as I did think their
achromat to be very good, but again, for an achromat.

I almost bought a Vixen ED 102S setup, just as you did, but I
got to looking around, especially at the Vixen FL 102S with its ghastly
$500 price increase over the Takahashi FS-102...

....it didn't take me long to decide: "Hey, I can get a Takahashi fluorite
for PEANUTS, comparatively!"

Thats why I purchased the Vixen ED, IMHO it is a great buy and you get
excellent optics to boot.

I think that had I purchased the Vixen ED 102S after having
returned the achromat that I would've come to the same conclusion,
too...

....but with that near-purchase of a Takahashi FS-102 having forever
haunted me.

Just my 2 cents worth...
Clear Skies,
David

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:29:23 GMT, "Mick" wrote:

Does the Vixen ED series compare to the Tak's?

I briefly owned a Vixen 4" achromat, that is, with a
common crown/flint doublet, however I quickly arrived
at the conclusion that I had outgrown achromats with
their seemingly patented chromatic aberration, so I sent
it back and got a Takahashi FS-102 in its stead.

The FS-102 in combination with University Optics'
orthoscopics is far superior to the Vixen achromat
combined with Vixen's orthoscopics(I did not have
the UO's at the time), however that is not to say
that the Vixen achromat did not give good views,
for it did, and very good for an achromat.

The Vixen ED series should fall halfway between
the two, and perhaps leaning more towards the
Takahashi in overall quality, but only slightly
perhaps.

The Vixen ED 102S O.T.A. currently sells for
$1525, while the Takahashi FS-102 O.T.A. is ON
SALE for $1895, a mere $370 difference in price...

...the choice is obvious, that is, among refractors.

Alan

On 1 Sep 2003 09:29:56 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan,
Well, to be honest, I would like to try out a Tak...and I agree on
your assessment of the LV, sold mine the week it came...too bad money
IS the limiting factor...otherwise, I would have a refractor
collection!!!

Only one GOOD refractor is needed, and for stars and planets, particularly
doubles and variables. For anything else, get a Newtonian.

Now that you have the Vixen ED, it should satisfy as long as it reduces
the false color to an acceptable level, and of course I realise that that
criterion would vary from individual to individual, but in that the false
color may never be entirely eliminated, with the only true apochromat
being a Newtonian, and refractors approaching that level being
exceptionally cost-prohibitive, as long as the correction is a
definite improvement over that of a common achromat,
have no regrets. Besides, with an ED refractor, you've
no fluorite with which to be obsessively concerned...

"Oh no! The tube fell sharply upon...the bed! Is the lens allright?!!!"

"Hhhaaa! There's frost on the lens! If I take it in too quick, it'll crack!"

....you get the point.

While I've yet to see any false color through my FS-102, save with an
off-axis view via the Takahashi prism diagonal, I'm not counting my
chickens just yet. But I don't expect it to be an utter apochromat,
and will not mind if and when I do see a spot of color here and there...

....but only a spot, and only here and there.

As a matter of fact, I've done very, very little observing since I got it
at the beginning of July, and due to the constant rains, and to the point
that I'm surprised we haven't slid off of our lot into the road. No matter,
as I've sent the O.T.A. to Houston for an...assurance check...

sticks thumb in mouth

Alan

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On 1 Sep 2003 09:29:56 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan,
Well, to be honest, I would like to try out a Tak...and I agree on
your assessment of the LV, sold mine the week it came...too bad money
IS the limiting factor...otherwise, I would have a refractor
collection!!!

Only one GOOD refractor is needed, and for stars and planets, particularly
doubles and variables. For anything else, get a Newtonian.

snip...

I got a Discovery 8" f8 "Mars Observer" dob in about 3 weeks ago. Got
in some quick views of Mars so far, seems to be a great scope. Not
too portable thought, looks like a canon out front on my driveway

The weather here in the southeast is terrible most of the summer and I
have had 3 nights of opportunities since the Mars scope came. Last
night, I played peek-a-boo with the clouds and Mars, only got two
mosquito bites, not too bad of a summer night!!!!

How much maginification will the Tak pull on Mars on an average night?

David

On 1 Sep 2003 17:12:00 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan W. Craft wrote in message . ..
On 1 Sep 2003 09:29:56 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

Alan,
Well, to be honest, I would like to try out a Tak...and I agree on
your assessment of the LV, sold mine the week it came...too bad money
IS the limiting factor...otherwise, I would have a refractor
collection!!!

Only one GOOD refractor is needed, and for stars and planets, particularly
doubles and variables. For anything else, get a Newtonian.

snip...

I got a Discovery 8" f8...

You mean either an f/6 or f/7, don't you? I went to Discovery's
website, and the only f/8 they regularly offer is a 6". In any case,
you chose well.

..."Mars Observer" dob in about 3 weeks ago. Got
in some quick views of Mars so far, seems to be a great scope. Not
too portable thought, looks like a canon out front on my driveway

The weather here in the southeast...

Where is that exactly, as I live just south of Memphis here in
Mississippi. The weather here has been just as terrible. In my
39 years I can't recall the last time we were inundated by
so much water.

...is terrible most of the summer and I
have had 3 nights of opportunities since the Mars scope came. Last
night, I played peek-a-boo with the clouds and Mars, only got two
mosquito bites, not too bad of a summer night!!!!

The nights are getting cooler, at last. The first things to go
should be those teeny Count Dracula wannabes.

How much maginification will the Tak pull on Mars on an average night?

Oh, I've yet to do any lengthy and/or complicated observing.
I am looking forward to combining a good barlow with my eyepieces
and do that very thing.

One evening when observing Mars, I had a 5mm UO orthoscopic
in the focuser, and with no noticeable image degradation. That would
be 820/5 = 164x. Mars wasn't all that high in the sky, either.

When I was looking at the Moon at partial phase with the UO 4mm...
very nice, but I've yet to attach the JMI RA motor to do any lengthy
observing at such higher magnifications. What with working CONSTANTLY
combined with the bad weather, I haven't had any real opportunity to "play"
with the scope...

....but just you wait...fall and winter are coming...and so's my new star atlas
from Amazon.com.

Alan

Alan W. Craft wrote:
On 1 Sep 2003 17:12:00 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

I got a Discovery 8" f8...

You mean either an f/6 or f/7, don't you? I went to Discovery's
website, and the only f/8 they regularly offer is a 6". In any case,
you chose well.


Nope, he meant 8" f/8. It was a web special that Discovery offered
earlier in the summer. I almost went for it myself until I decided to buy
a 10" f/7.5 reflector on Astromart... now talk about beasts...

--
Bill

************************************************** *************************
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something
right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home page - http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~wmchal1
************************************************** *************************

Bill is right. It was offered for a while by Discovery, got one of the
last ones, or so I was told. It is the one shown in S&T at the
Astronomics ad page for their contest giveaway...
David

William Mc Hale wrote in message ...
Alan W. Craft wrote:
On 1 Sep 2003 17:12:00 -0700, (david) ...reflected:

I got a Discovery 8" f8...

You mean either an f/6 or f/7, don't you? I went to Discovery's
website, and the only f/8 they regularly offer is a 6". In any case,
you chose well.


Nope, he meant 8" f/8. It was a web special that Discovery offered
earlier in the summer. I almost went for it myself until I decided to buy
a 10" f/7.5 reflector on Astromart... now talk about beasts...

--
Bill

************************************************** *************************
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something
right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home page - http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~wmchal1
************************************************** *************************