Suggested Objects for Night on 60"

We are going to Mt. Wilson Friday night to view Mars through the 60"
telescope (courtesy Los Angeles Astronomical Society), and were told we
could look at other objects we were interested in.

I am looking for suggestion for what you would look at if you had a little
time with a 60" scope....

Thanks.

- Barry

Barry Megdal wrote:

We are going to Mt. Wilson Friday night to view Mars through the 60"
telescope (courtesy Los Angeles Astronomical Society), and were told we
could look at other objects we were interested in.

I am looking for suggestion for what you would look at if you had a little
time with a 60" scope....

Thanks.

- Barry

Barry,

You can expect some very helpful people to be there to guide you on what
to look for. There's always an experienced observer from the Mount
Wilson Observatory Association in the dome to help. Using a 60"
telescope -- especially an f/16 like you'll be using and in the light
polluted skies near LA -- is not the same as with smaller scopes so
experienced observers are particularly helpful. I've been using that
telescope for some 20 years and know from experience that amateurs are
often disappointed with some objects that are just not suitable for the
scope but are amazed at what they see of other objects. I've had some
very memorable views with that telescope.

Here's what's not as good as you'd expect:

Galaxies. Almost all of them. Try M51 with the expectation that you'll
see the spiral arms like in a photo and you might have trouble locating
the object. With a focal length of 960 inches the field is too narrow
for that object. Unless the sky is particularly dark -- as with the low
layer of clouds ("marine layer") that sometimes covers the city -- the
background is not dark enough for such low surface brightness, low
contrast objects. That said, the dust lane in NGC 4565 can be pretty
good. And while only a tiny part of M31 can be seen the star clouds and
a few globular clusters are pretty neat when seeing is good.

Large diffuse nebulae. Low surface brightness and lack of contrast over
the small field just doesn't work well. Again, that said, M42 can be
incredible to sweep through on a good night.

Here's what's good (this is a lot more fung):

Small planetary nebulae. I saw NGC 6543 (Cat's Eye) looking very
similar to the Hubble picture a couple weeks ago. NGC 7009, NGC 7662,
NGC 6210 and those sorts can show all kinds of detail. M57 (Ring) can
be spectacular. You could spend the night on planets and planetaries
and be very satisfied.

Globular clusters. M15 is a favorite because it's more readily
resolvable than some others (not that M13 is anything to sniff at). And
M15 has Pease 1, a tiny planetary nebula that's fun to look for. Use an
OIII filter to "blink" the cluster and you might find it.

And last but hardly least these days -- planets. I've been following
Mars for several weeks and it can be incredible at times. Find the
positions of Phobos and Deimos and you should be able to find them
easily without occulting the planet or moving it out of the field.
Seeing them both in a low power eyepiece with Mars right there is a
thrill you may never have the chance of repeating. Uranus and Neptune
are both available now but they suffer the same problem that Mars does
now -- being so low in the south.

As for the experienced observers I mentioned, LAAS has many members that
have used the 60" several times and know the ropes. And there is always
the MWOA volunteer I mentioned running the sessions. There's also a
list put together by Don Nicholson -- son of the late Mount Wilson
astronomer Seth Nicholson, current MWOA president and the assistant
deputy director for public affairs of the Mount Wilson Institute that
runs the observatory -- of the best objects to observe based on many
years experience (Don's been around Mount Wilson for about 70 years).

That said (there's that caveat introduction againg), we often get
requests that we never tried before and they're sometimes pretty
interesting. The 60" can't be swung around to bag lots of objects like
a smaller scope can. And it can take an hour or more to get everyone up
to the eyepiece for a view of a good object when there is a full crowd
of 25 in the dome (this is highly dependent on the position of the
scope). But if you come up with a good idea that the other observers
think sounds like fun -- and if it's something suitable for the scope
and conditions -- then they might decide to give it a try. The LAAS
members that have been there a few times are always looking for
something new to try. BTW, you can expect to see only 10 objects or so,
even less if you stay on Mars for a few hours so everyone present can
have plenty of time. Choose wisely. :-)

One resource that I've used sometimes is Greg Crinklaw's Skyhound web
page at http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html. I've found some
unusual challenges that Greg's put up there that have been very nice
objects in the 60". I've just finished networking the dome and
installing a new computer that can be used for star charts, etc. and
I've installed Greg's SkyTools 2 for use in planning sessions and
finding interesting objects. I don't know if that will be available
Friday night, though, since I came down the mountain today and the 60"
called tonight to say there's a glitch with the computer. :-( I've been
there most of the time last few weeks and don't plan to go up again
until Sunday so it might be a few days before that program is
available. But I might be able to send something up that will fix the
problem. If you want to bring a laptop with your own software, however,
feel free to bring it up. Just be sure to have some red gel or
something to dim the screen.

Note that what everything depends on the seeing. It's not just planets
that require good seeing but everything you look at, and that's
particularly true when you want to take advantage of the 60" aperture.
Even in poor seeing Mars and other objects are fantastic but when the
seeing is good it's awe inspiring. Good seeing has been in shorter
supply than usual lately with some unusual summer weather but the last
couple nights have been very good at least part of the night.

The best eyepieces available a
100 mm Masuyama Kellner, four-inch barrel, used for low power even
though the field isn't that big (240x)
50 mm Zeiss, made from a camera lens so I don't know what the design is,
outstanding very wide field, four-inch barrel (480x)
30 mm Leitz, 88-degree AFOV, two-inch barrel, incredible eyepiece
(~700x)

But bring up your favorite two-inch if you like. Panoptics work very
well at that long f-ratio, my favorites being the 35 and 27 (if seeing's
good enough for that). Bring a digital camera and you might be
surprised at what you can get through the eyepiece.

BTW, LAAS has also scheduled the nearby 16" LX-200 for Friday so you can
kill some time there while waiting for the line to go through.

Have a great time!

Mike Simmons

Barry Megdal wrote:

We are going to Mt. Wilson Friday night to view Mars through the 60"
telescope (courtesy Los Angeles Astronomical Society), and were told we
could look at other objects we were interested in.

I am looking for suggestion for what you would look at if you had a little
time with a 60" scope....

Thanks.

- Barry

Barry,

You can expect some very helpful people to be there to guide you on what
to look for. There's always an experienced observer from the Mount
Wilson Observatory Association in the dome to help. Using a 60"
telescope -- especially an f/16 like you'll be using and in the light
polluted skies near LA -- is not the same as with smaller scopes so
experienced observers are particularly helpful. I've been using that
telescope for some 20 years and know from experience that amateurs are
often disappointed with some objects that are just not suitable for the
scope but are amazed at what they see of other objects. I've had some
very memorable views with that telescope.

Here's what's not as good as you'd expect:

Galaxies. Almost all of them. Try M51 with the expectation that you'll
see the spiral arms like in a photo and you might have trouble locating
the object. With a focal length of 960 inches the field is too narrow
for that object. Unless the sky is particularly dark -- as with the low
layer of clouds ("marine layer") that sometimes covers the city -- the
background is not dark enough for such low surface brightness, low
contrast objects. That said, the dust lane in NGC 4565 can be pretty
good. And while only a tiny part of M31 can be seen the star clouds and
a few globular clusters are pretty neat when seeing is good.

Large diffuse nebulae. Low surface brightness and lack of contrast over
the small field just doesn't work well. Again, that said, M42 can be
incredible to sweep through on a good night.

Here's what's good (this is a lot more fung):

Small planetary nebulae. I saw NGC 6543 (Cat's Eye) looking very
similar to the Hubble picture a couple weeks ago. NGC 7009, NGC 7662,
NGC 6210 and those sorts can show all kinds of detail. M57 (Ring) can
be spectacular. You could spend the night on planets and planetaries
and be very satisfied.

Globular clusters. M15 is a favorite because it's more readily
resolvable than some others (not that M13 is anything to sniff at). And
M15 has Pease 1, a tiny planetary nebula that's fun to look for. Use an
OIII filter to "blink" the cluster and you might find it.

And last but hardly least these days -- planets. I've been following
Mars for several weeks and it can be incredible at times. Find the
positions of Phobos and Deimos and you should be able to find them
easily without occulting the planet or moving it out of the field.
Seeing them both in a low power eyepiece with Mars right there is a
thrill you may never have the chance of repeating. Uranus and Neptune
are both available now but they suffer the same problem that Mars does
now -- being so low in the south.

As for the experienced observers I mentioned, LAAS has many members that
have used the 60" several times and know the ropes. And there is always
the MWOA volunteer I mentioned running the sessions. There's also a
list put together by Don Nicholson -- son of the late Mount Wilson
astronomer Seth Nicholson, current MWOA president and the assistant
deputy director for public affairs of the Mount Wilson Institute that
runs the observatory -- of the best objects to observe based on many
years experience (Don's been around Mount Wilson for about 70 years).

That said (there's that caveat introduction againg), we often get
requests that we never tried before and they're sometimes pretty
interesting. The 60" can't be swung around to bag lots of objects like
a smaller scope can. And it can take an hour or more to get everyone up
to the eyepiece for a view of a good object when there is a full crowd
of 25 in the dome (this is highly dependent on the position of the
scope). But if you come up with a good idea that the other observers
think sounds like fun -- and if it's something suitable for the scope
and conditions -- then they might decide to give it a try. The LAAS
members that have been there a few times are always looking for
something new to try. BTW, you can expect to see only 10 objects or so,
even less if you stay on Mars for a few hours so everyone present can
have plenty of time. Choose wisely. :-)

One resource that I've used sometimes is Greg Crinklaw's Skyhound web
page at http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html. I've found some
unusual challenges that Greg's put up there that have been very nice
objects in the 60". I've just finished networking the dome and
installing a new computer that can be used for star charts, etc. and
I've installed Greg's SkyTools 2 for use in planning sessions and
finding interesting objects. I don't know if that will be available
Friday night, though, since I came down the mountain today and the 60"
called tonight to say there's a glitch with the computer. :-( I've been
there most of the time last few weeks and don't plan to go up again
until Sunday so it might be a few days before that program is
available. But I might be able to send something up that will fix the
problem. If you want to bring a laptop with your own software, however,
feel free to bring it up. Just be sure to have some red gel or
something to dim the screen.

Note that what everything depends on the seeing. It's not just planets
that require good seeing but everything you look at, and that's
particularly true when you want to take advantage of the 60" aperture.
Even in poor seeing Mars and other objects are fantastic but when the
seeing is good it's awe inspiring. Good seeing has been in shorter
supply than usual lately with some unusual summer weather but the last
couple nights have been very good at least part of the night.

The best eyepieces available a
100 mm Masuyama Kellner, four-inch barrel, used for low power even
though the field isn't that big (240x)
50 mm Zeiss, made from a camera lens so I don't know what the design is,
outstanding very wide field, four-inch barrel (480x)
30 mm Leitz, 88-degree AFOV, two-inch barrel, incredible eyepiece
(~700x)

But bring up your favorite two-inch if you like. Panoptics work very
well at that long f-ratio, my favorites being the 35 and 27 (if seeing's
good enough for that). Bring a digital camera and you might be
surprised at what you can get through the eyepiece.

BTW, LAAS has also scheduled the nearby 16" LX-200 for Friday so you can
kill some time there while waiting for the line to go through.

Have a great time!

Mike Simmons

"Barry Megdal" wrote in message ink.net...
We are going to Mt. Wilson Friday night to view Mars through the 60"
telescope (courtesy Los Angeles Astronomical Society), and were told we
could look at other objects we were interested in.

I am looking for suggestion for what you would look at if you had a little
time with a 60" scope....

Thanks.

- Barry

Abell galaxy clusters. There are several in good positions - in
Andromeda and Perseus, for example. NGC253; NGC246; the Fornax
cluster, even if it's onl;y 10° above the horizon. And while you're at
it, Stephen's Quintet, Einstein's Cross...my gosh, I could go on and
on! I'd love to be in your shoes tonight!
Clear skies,
Shneor Sherman

"Barry Megdal" wrote in message ink.net...
We are going to Mt. Wilson Friday night to view Mars through the 60"
telescope (courtesy Los Angeles Astronomical Society), and were told we
could look at other objects we were interested in.

I am looking for suggestion for what you would look at if you had a little
time with a 60" scope....

Thanks.

- Barry

Abell galaxy clusters. There are several in good positions - in
Andromeda and Perseus, for example. NGC253; NGC246; the Fornax
cluster, even if it's onl;y 10° above the horizon. And while you're at
it, Stephen's Quintet, Einstein's Cross...my gosh, I could go on and
on! I'd love to be in your shoes tonight!
Clear skies,
Shneor Sherman

Mike Simmons wrote:

You can expect some very helpful people to be there to guide you on what
to look for. There's always an experienced observer from the Mount
Wilson Observatory Association in the dome to help. ...


I can vouch for this. Last Wednesday night/Thursday morning I was a
tag-along with an independent film crew who are putting together a
documentary on Mars. They filmed extensively up on Mount Wilson and
captured some great video of the planet through the 60-inch on opposition
night.

And all the while the Mount Wilson Observatory Association folk were
splendid hosts -- friendly and helpful; it was a pleasure to work with
them. Best of all, I had the honor of meeting the esteemed Mike Simmons
in person.

By the way, when this documentary eventually airs, perhaps on Discovery
Channel or similar in 2004, you'll no doubt see Mike Simmons in action.
The film crew relied heavily on Mike to supply details on the history of
the Observatory and to describe aspects of the featured reddish orb.

--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Mark Gingrich San Leandro, California

Mike Simmons wrote:

You can expect some very helpful people to be there to guide you on what
to look for. There's always an experienced observer from the Mount
Wilson Observatory Association in the dome to help. ...


I can vouch for this. Last Wednesday night/Thursday morning I was a
tag-along with an independent film crew who are putting together a
documentary on Mars. They filmed extensively up on Mount Wilson and
captured some great video of the planet through the 60-inch on opposition
night.

And all the while the Mount Wilson Observatory Association folk were
splendid hosts -- friendly and helpful; it was a pleasure to work with
them. Best of all, I had the honor of meeting the esteemed Mike Simmons
in person.

By the way, when this documentary eventually airs, perhaps on Discovery
Channel or similar in 2004, you'll no doubt see Mike Simmons in action.
The film crew relied heavily on Mike to supply details on the history of
the Observatory and to describe aspects of the featured reddish orb.

--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Mark Gingrich San Leandro, California

Mark,

It was a great pleasure meeting you as well. I've also enjoyed your
posts here and your articles and I was delighted to have time to chat in
person. You've always been a gentleman and a scholar online and the
reality did not disappoint. :-)

Mike Simmons

P.S. When (if) that documentary airs you'll catch Mark in it as well.
One shot I'm sure will be used shows Mark high on the 60" Newtonian
platform watching as the shutter opens just above him, revealing a
darkening sky. I'm looking forward to seeing that very cool shot!

Mark,

It was a great pleasure meeting you as well. I've also enjoyed your
posts here and your articles and I was delighted to have time to chat in
person. You've always been a gentleman and a scholar online and the
reality did not disappoint. :-)

Mike Simmons

P.S. When (if) that documentary airs you'll catch Mark in it as well.
One shot I'm sure will be used shows Mark high on the 60" Newtonian
platform watching as the shutter opens just above him, revealing a
darkening sky. I'm looking forward to seeing that very cool shot!

I would have a go at the Veil in Cygnus. What is the field of view of
the telescope? What magnification is available?